@[member="nativetongues"] Your post prompted me to try and verify as much as my feeble brain can manage. I started with: What is ethylmercury? All the chemistry aside it is a preservative used in some vaccines and other products including tattoo ink. Ok bottom line...how toxic is it? The latest study I could find was from 2005. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1280369/ The basic findings of this experiment was ethylmercury led to much higher concentrations of inorganic mercury in the brains of the monkeys. Concluding with: "The researchers emphasize, however, that the risks associated with low-level exposures to inorganic mercury in the developing brain are unknown, and they describe other research linking persistent inorganic mercury exposure with increased activation of microglia in the brain, an effect recently reported in children with autism. They recommend further research focused specifically on the biotransformation of thimerosal and its neurotoxic potential." A page from CDC about inorganic mercury: http://emergency.cdc.gov/agent/mercury/mercinorgcasedef.asp Is there more recent scientific findings? Science aside, I'll have to look into what "anti-vaccine" people are claiming because there is definitely enough reasons to continue the discussion. Which kinda raises my eyebrow at the flat out labeling and dismissal of the "anti-vaccine crowd". I've only looked into this issue for 2 hours and have already identified a few unresolved issues...I could only imagine a parent trying to find out the truth. This whole post isn't for, nativetongues, just feeding off their last post.
Thimerosol isn't used in routine infant/children's vaccines any more. It is used in the flu vaccine, but a non-thimerosol version is also available. Keep in mind, it's still used in other countries, and the scientific community still considers it safe for vaccines in the concentration it is typically used at (.001-.01%). It was removed from children's vaccines in the U.S. due to public concern.
[quote name="ReturnFire333" post="19415070" timestamp="1390822164"]I will never take the governments poison again, and the kids that I will never have will not either.[/quote]Shame you choose to side with conspiracy theories theorists when it comes to health advances that could save your life and more importantly the life of your offspring.
I guess I'm siding with the information of the government in a way since I've read the official list of ingredients in that toxic shit.
[quote name="ReturnFire333" post="19415282" timestamp="1390828847"]I guess I'm siding with the information of the government in a way since I've read the official list of ingredients in that toxic shit.[/quote]Still siding with conspiracy since you listen to their fear mongering fallacies vs peer reviewed scientific studies you'd rather label as "the government"
I have my opinions, you'll never get me to side with vaccines so don't try to argue me or convince me, completely pointless. The only debate I have on the subject is they inject people with mercury, aluminum, and formaldahyde. Get that shit the fuck out of my face.
[quote name="ReturnFire333" post="19415297" timestamp="1390829089"]I have my opinions, you'll never get me to side with vaccines so don't try to argue me or convince me, completely pointless. The only debate I have on the subject is they inject people with mercury, aluminum, and formaldahyde. Get that shit the fuck out of my face.[/quote]I am not trying to convince you. I am aware opinions are very ingrained and difficult to change. And siding with Fallacies and bullshit it is. Again I feel sorry for the position you put your children in one day. Hopefully you actually do look into both sides vs just listening to the anti vaccine crowd while barely barely understanding the vaccine science besides arguments barely touching on the science and relying on fallacies raised by the anti vaccine theories.
I plan on never having children (a relief for you I'm sure) I've seen plenty of legitimate reports of negative health complications of vaccines, human bodies are more than capable of defending themselves, and I won't use any artificial means of "aiding" my body.
Its not a black and white issue. Some vaccines are a good idea. I strongly believe, if youre parents had the option of getting you the chicken pox vaccine, and chose not to, they dont love you. Because no loving parent would put their child through that. My Father, who was born well before the vaccine, and got chicken pox agrees, for example. Polio? Yea were better off without that. Tetanus? Yea, we can live without that. so on and so forth. On the other hand, we have things like the swine flu vaccine, and the whole craze over this deadly deadly disease, that wasnt really deadly besides to babies and very old seniors, my grandma tried to get me to do it when the school started offering vaccines, I quite adamantly refused. Flu Vaccines in general are just an attempt to make money off fear mongering, and rarely do much anyway.
[quote name="LuxTenebris" post="19415318" timestamp="1390829780"]Its not a black and white issue.Some vaccines are a good idea.I strongly believe, if youre parents had the option of getting you the chicken pox vaccine, and chose not to, they dont love you. Because no loving parent would put their child through that. My Father, who was born well before the vaccine, and got chicken pox agrees, for example.Polio? Yea were better off without that.Tetanus? Yea, we can live without that.so on and so forth.On the other hand, we have things like the swine flu vaccine, and the whole craze over this deadly deadly disease, that wasnt really deadly besides to babies and very old seniors, my grandma tried to get me to do it when the school started offering vaccines, I quite adamantly refused. Flu Vaccines in general are just an attempt to make money off fear mongering, and rarely do much anyway.[/quote]Agreed with all of this
However, the largest flu epidemic in history, which was one of the largest epidemics in all of history killed healthy young people, not children and seniors. One reason such an epidemic hasn't happened again is because of widespread vaccinations. Yes, it's a huge money making mess based off of fear mongering, but it helps by slowing down the rate of spreading throughout the population.
Its not like you are getting vaccinated every day. Shall we stop eating apples for fear of cyanide? Seriously. You get way more mercury from eating a meal of tuna Sent from my LG-E739 using Grasscity Forum mobile app
My cousin had the swine back during that whole media craze and was just fine after a week. What a load of shite that was. Every time I've ever had a flu shot I get horribly sick and feel wretched for weeks. Fuck that noise, I'll take my chances.
More than capable of defending themselves? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumps http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pertussis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poliomyelitis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholera I honestly don't give a shit if you get one of these diseases and die, but that's not the point. The reason people need to get vaccinated is because you're facilitating the spread of the diseases to others. Did you even look at the map I posted? People like you are tearing apart decades of medical progress because of your own ridiculous paranoia. Ignore what the government and media say about these vaccines; look at the damn science.
http://www.immunizationinfo.org/vaccines/measles It's important to put a perspective on the actual dangers of vaccines. Serious reactions do happen, but they are rare. People can have serious reactions to peanut butter, that doesn't make pb dangerous. The MMR vaccine: Only 1 in 10,000 children have a serious reaction. So between .01 -.03% of the population will experience a moderate to serious reaction. And since1990 no children have died from the vaccine. http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=15618 Peanuts: 1.3% of the population is allergic to peanuts. 1/3 of those people can have a fatal or near-fatal reaction if they eat peanuts. Now... imagine a parent who will never give their child peanut butter out of "fear" of an allergic reaction. I think most reasonable people would consider that a little paranoid.
The only study I've found to support this theory that ethyl mercury is bad is the one referenced earlier by the ncib about monkeys which did show mercury present in the brain but they were unable to show whether or not this had any affects. There have been many cohort studies done on the issue which show that not only do kids who take vaccines not have higher rates of autism than those who don't but that they actually generally were less likely to have autism. I can understand the hesitancy to put chemicals in your body but the body of science points more towards ethyl mercury being relatively harmless than the cause of major psychological issues. I'm not saying without a doubt that ethyl mercury is 100 percent safe and has no side effects but the side effects aren't well documented. The only reason people are questioning these vaccines is because they are in a world where things like polio aren't common, due to the success of vaccines. I'm not saying that vaccines are harmless but I'll take my chances with a little bit of mercury over being vulnerable to terrible diseases like smallpox, polio, and diphtheria which used to be a major threat to our society before vaccines became the norm. If you really believe that you can avoid these diseases by being "healthy" then you are not very well informed about the human immune system. There's a reason that things like smallpox and polio were so widespread before we vaccinated and that's because they're highly infectious viruses and there's not much you can do to cure either. These are not diseases that can be avoided by simply living a healthy life. In order to avoid these we need to build immunities and one of the best ways to do that is with a vaccine, which is how we've basically been able to eradicate things like polio. For those of you who don't believe in vaccines say well I didn't get any why am I not being infected. The reason for that is because pretty much everyone else around you was smart enough to get vaccinated which means that the virus does not have enough viable hosts to spread and flourish. If you really think that vaccines have caused more damage than good then you are misinformed. Vaccines are probably one of the greatest advances in medical history and one of the best preventative treatments we have at our disposal. Plus most vaccines are now offered without any mercury. Just remember an ounce of prevention is worth a pound in cure. This applies only to required vaccines not things like flu shots. Flu shots aren't really necessary in my opinion. I don't see how a rational mind could see the risk of a little mercury as comparable or worse than being susceptible to infectious viral diseases. I'm no scientist and obviously I don't have access to all the research but from what I've been exposed to and looked up it seems that the risk is well worth the reward when it comes to vaccines.Tl;dr - a little bit of mercury may not be 100 percent safe but the risk is probably a lot less dangerous than getting a disease like polio which was a common problem before vaccines.Sent from my iPhone using Grasscity Forum
It was a load of fear mongering shit in the sense that the media blew it up into some huge thing when more people die in car accidents than did from that shit. It was fear mongering plain and simple.
hey Johnny, think of a vaccine as a type of gun that protects against all the invisible nasty biologies that want to hurt and maybe kill you. Stand your ground!