Any help or suggestions would truly be appreciated!! Here are a couple pics.. Here's what we're doing... Transplanted clones 11-15-10 roughly, (bad start!) into Ebb and Flow system. Lucas Formula. Started PPM's at 248. On 11-25-10 started raising nutes 100 PPM's a day. Now we're around 1250 to 1300 PPM's. 600 watt enhanced spectrum HPS, started at 360 Watts and upped to 400 Watts, now at 600, raised 21" above plants. 24/7. Co2 at 1350 - 1400 PPM. Humidity at about 40 to 60%. Temp at 75 to 81 degrees. Two oscillating fans above, away from plants. PH is normally around 5.8 Watering - started flooding every three hours for about three days then switched to every four hours, now we're at every 6 hours. We're thinking they're not getting enough water? The growers bible mentions symptoms that are the same and state under watering could be a cause. We just switched the timing to every 4.75 hours hoping that might fix it? But the weird yellowing leaves are weird too??? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!!!
We also read it may be due to the heat from the lights? Are the lights too close? 21" from the plants should be OK we're thinking??? We also read too much water can do the same thing??? HELP!! We're confused.....
frow what i can tell the curling of the leafs seems to be happening at the tops of the plants only. if that is the case it could be from the lights. does it seem concentrated near the bulbs. if that doesnt seem like the case im going to have to say it is over fertilization do the ppms in your res rise daily? were you having root rot problems. i cant quite understand why u so drasticly changed the watering cycle?
Hello Wert, thanks for the reply! It seems that some of the leaves below, mostly ones that are exposed to light, are curling as well. But, it is more so on the tops of the plants. The lights are now 19" above the plants. The PPM's aren't rising daily, they go down a bit, (we add back about 5-6 gallons of RO water a day and check the ppm before add back). I don't think we had a root rot problem. In the beginning, they did poorly we think possibly due to over watering (at first, the cubes were too high in the pots, so we lowered them to reach the water) and watered every three hours for just a couple days. We read on a thread here, that you should water four times a day, which is where we were at. So then we upped to five times a day a few days ago and now thinking about 6 times a day because we were thinking they weren't getting enough water from what we read out of the Growers Bible. Maybe that's too much watering? The lights being too close seems to make sense. Should we maybe do both, raise the lights and water more? We are sooooo nubies at this...
make sure you have enough air circulation. the plants should dance a bit wen the fan hits it. if you dont move the air from arround the leaf they will sufficate. and the leaf tempature will increase. the leafs are curling up because the stomata are open wide. they do this to respire. they open to cool themselves take in co2 and release water vapor to draw more food up. if the ph doesnt change at all you could be locking out a nutrient. each element absorbs at a different ph. you need to let it move somewhat or else you could have lock out. if they were underwatered i doubt they would have the stomata open. theywould close to conserver water. if they were over ferted they would probably close to prevent the flow of nutrients. so that leaves us with enviroment. either the leaf tempature is to high or there isnt enough co2. if u dont supplement co2 you need to change out the air inside your room. a good rule of thumb for exhaust requirement is lighting watts/4 = number of cfms. so for a 1000 you need a minimum of 250 cfms. make sure the leafs on your plant move around a bit by the circulation fans and keep your lights at a safe distance.
Hi Wert, We're going to have to go back and re-read your post, GREAT info there. But to quickly answer on the nutes, we use Lucus Formula, flora micro and flora bloom - 8 ml's and 16 mls per gallon of RO water. We have a great excel add back calculator that a friend gave us that is pretty accurate. We've read, a while back about mag deficiency. It seemed that it is a common problem with these plants? Or maybe with this type of nutes? We do have some epsom salt! Here's what we read in that growers bible about the "leaf fringe standing up" as they call it. The pic looked like ours though. It said "Leaf fringes that point up mean the leaf is trying to dissipate as much moisture as possible, but it is unable to. This could be caused by toxic salt buildup, lack of water, or heat stress". We do have two oscillating fans, and air cooled lights with a 435 cfm fan. You should check out our grow from our sig that shows our room and how close the plants are etc. Thanks again for all the help. I think we need to learn more about cal/mag deficiency as well!
do you have a .7 scale ppm meter. other wise you are running your ppms to high forr the lucas formula. your plant dont look burrnt so rune out over ferting. there is a possibility of salt build up on the hydroton. how often do you do water changes? if you have been doing the top of method they are probably experiancing lock out from changing the nute strengths so many times. you can always do a epsom salt folier spray. not sure on the amounts. i use cutting edge solutions cal and mag suppliments. but im sure you could get some good recomendations. i really doubt you will hurt it aslong as your ppms are around a 100. it could prove you are having a mag hungry plant. do you have any other signs of mag def. purple stems, red leaf stems, read up there are more but these are the two that show up on mine first befor the noticable leaf damage happens. ' my feeling is if it isnt ph or mag related it is a heat stress thing. sounds like you should have enough air to keep those lights cool. i let my plants get super close to my cool tubes maybe 4 " they seem to love it. but i keep my temps at 74-75. i have a controler to insure this. try to double check your that your canapy temps are actually below 80.if you have a controler make sure the temp probe is in the canopy
What kind of plants are those majestral? I have the exact same strain, I almost positive. Oddly enough, I seem to be experiencing the exact same problems as well. Although with mine, cupping is limited to the top leaves I believe. Tue to the lights being off right now, I could only feel the leaves so I'm not positive. Aside from the cupping/yellowing at the top though, (which would indicate heat stress) a lot of the lower leaves are undergoing yellowing in a similar pattern and its only the third week of flower. Its confusing because if its heat stress, then why are some of the other lower leaves yellowing too? I will post pictures tommorow when the lights are on. I believe that it is probably due to heat stress and or a nute defiencey.
I looked at your thread because my plant also started yellowing a week ago and now the leaves are cupping, too. (Wert helped me a lot on my thread). I'm confused by that quote from the MJ Grower's Bible: "Leaf fringes that point up mean the leaf is trying to dissipate as much moisture as possible, but it is unable to. This could be caused by toxic salt buildup, lack of water, or heat stress". Lack of water? If the plant were dry, wouldn't it close the stomata? Or maybe Cervantes meant lack of moisture in the air? OP, your plants are gorgeous, indeed like out of a magazine. I hope you get the problem sorted out. Wert is great -- he freely shares his wealth of knowledge.
i was guestioning the lack of water thing too. it seems to me the stomata would close if that was the case to conserve water. normally wilted plants curl under not up. even the salt build up thing seems a bit fishy to me. over feeding cause a reverse osmotic process in the plant where the medium literally sucks water out of the plant to make a less concentrated medium. with grass like a lawn grass, a over ferted lawn will curl under and wilt because the osmotic flow has reversed on the plant. that is why you need to flush at this point to remove the unwanted fertilizer and make a comfortable medium that is similar to the plants own internal ppms hope that made sence. i have the mj grow bible too. i feel it is lacking on many points and never really tells you how to grow. it more or less just gives a baseline knowledge. alowing you to understand terms and make direct research on a specific growing technique possible. its hard to research something without knowing the terms to search for. i feel that is the only real use for it but still well worth reading through.
Hey Wert! Thanks again for the help! We do have a Hana meter to check Ph/PPM's and we change the rez every two weeks. We think you're right on about the mag issue. We did more research and found pics (that look like our plants) that had mag deficiency. We had a friend take a look as well, and he agreed with you on the mag, with so many people saying it may by that, we put 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of RO water of epsom salt in the rez two nights ago. We were told it could take a week for results? We were told that if you use liquid cal/mag it causes a build up on the bottom of the rez. We thought it it may have to do with also adding H2o2 with the cal/mag at the same time? What do you think? Don't really know, but we're afraid of disasters! We have a Sentinel controller and the sniffer in the room is just at the top of the plants, they're growing like crazy. We'll be flipping lights in a couple days. We'll put up more pics!
Hey Prince! They're Kush. We put epsom salt in two days ago, so we'll let you know if it helps! Check out this web site, Marijuana Plant Abuse it has pics and explanations etc. It was a great find! Wert is really knowledgeable as well, he knows his stuff!
that build up you mention on the bottom of the res from the cal mag is caused by it not disolving properly or it is improperly chelated. if you want faster results spray them with the epsom salt water.
Hey Randomseed, Yea, after reading Vashigopal's and Wert's post on the lack of water (thanks for the input, by the way!), we really do think it's the mag thing. We didn't even know it could be a problem using RO water! But we're learning a lot thanks to the great people here on GC!
Hey Wert, If we spray them with epsom salt water, would it harm the plants being under HID 24/7? Should we wait until we flip the lights? Also, the epsom salt we bought at the grocery store, obviously isn't chelated, so is that OK for a spray? We put 1/2 tsp of epsom salt per gallon in the rez already, so would it hurt to put in the Magical solution (which has 11% chelated iron) we have in addition to that, or should we change the rez first? You are great, you're definitely getting a +rep!!
be carful when using many different additives from many different companys. lots of nutes dont mention other ingredients that are in their products. you dont want to accendently overdoes and lock out other things. other wise you could wind up chasing your tail around trying to cure other deficiancys or overdoses. keep it simple especially on your first grow.
Thank you sooo much again! We went with your suggestion and stayed with epsom salts. We put another 1/2 tsp in the rez yesterday. They are starting to look better from the first dose, but still have some boating and a little yellowing going on. (The Magical is a product that came with the Monster system.) We'll take some pics tonight. We saw your set up on your thread, wow, it's great! We liked your netting idea too! We had hooks placed in the walls for when we needed to tie up colas, so instead, we just kinda did your netting idea and used the hooks for that. It's hard to explain, so we'll post a pic tonight. Thanks so much for the idea! You know your stuff!