When I looked at that guide for the very first time, I was probably a somewhat experienced beginner at that point I guess. I wanted to change from bottled nutes and wasn't sure where to go. I didn't really understand organics at that point and thought about going with Roots Organics soil and their nutrients which is probably $100 for their whole line of nutrients. Then I read the organic soil for beginners thread, did a shitload of research where I have been reading for days and days, and I think I finally started to figure it out and it didn't seem that complicated any more. I guess we all advance as we move on with this nice plant. I will say that you need a larger soil base in order to have your yield compete with a bottled nutrient, but damn it creates some good smoke.
I just started harvesting the 1st of 4 plants, so I will be tied up for the next week. I will pm you when I have a chance. If you don't mind I would also like to address a few other subjects as well, so I fore warn you my pm will most likely be a diatribe. If you would like to take a look at my journal you will see my soil recipe on the last page post #461. I just had someone ask for it so it should be easy to find. Have a great night. MGB
The main point that the *consensus* missed then and still does is that the "soil" being talked about was just that, dirt, the back 40, mule and plow stuff. NOT a peat based mix like what we are using. It might be a problem if you use a John Deere to tend your crop, but otherwise it's like menstrual cramp remedys for men. Totally irrelevant to reality. Even though I use other Ca sources, lime is the second ingredient in my mix after I measure out the peat moss. Been making this same basic mix for a bit over 40 years. Wet
So if I used oyster shell as a replacement, what else would I need to balance the ca and mag and at what ratio?
Thank you Jerry. Between you, papawayne, and several of the other organic growers of the city i'm learning a lot and I feel I'll definitely be prepared when I begin growing.
Papawayne is an experienced gardener and you will do well to follow his advice. Don't get overwhelmed, don't over think this and above all; KEEP IT SIMPLE. Some high quality vermicompost (above all), sphagnum peat, several choice amendments such as kelp, neem, crab (or any other calcium rich amendment) and some rock flour. Cycle it before use and keep it moist during use. Too many make it complicated - it's gardening and should be very simple and very enjoyable. Don't fall into the trap. J
Thanks for the advice and I'll definitely heed it! The reason I found myself in this forum is because reading through the hydro forums I realized I didn't want to overcomplicate nature and I already prefer putting organic produce in my body because I know it hasn't been tainted with poisonous chemicals. That and the support structure that experienced growers such as yourself, papa, noob, and some of the others I follow is insanely awesome. Typically I'm the type of guy who doesn't like asking question because I hate not knowing the answer in front of someone but you guys have made me feel right at home. No hesitation to ask for the knowledge I seek any longer!
We are talking Crustacean Meals. Is oyster a crustacean? If oyster shell powder has chitin & calcium, and that's the same good stuff in crab meal, then..... Is there any reason I should use the expensive crabmeal in place of oyster shell powder at a low cost of $9 / 50 lbs? And some people like insect frass even though thats more expensive by weight, but the stuff probably weighs less than crabmeal... thanx!
If you can snag oyster shell flour for $9/50 lb, snag it. But, *I* don't think it contains chitin. Maybe it does? IDK I use dolomite lime since it is $4.50/40lb bag. Oyster shell flour would cost 10x that due to shipping. Good stuff, but not THAT good for a pH/calcium supplement. I don't think chitin (crab meal, etc), justifies the extra cost either to have it shipped. Good stuff, but again, not THAT good, at least as far as my priorities go. Wet
Wet, I did a little reading that suggests you are correct. This has a little bit of interesting info among all the words: http://www.ceimaine.org/Resources/Documents/Beyond%20Waste.pdf It confirms that if you want chitin, don't get oyster shell--although there is a small or trace amount in oyster shell. Better to go with shrimp, crab, or lobster. Looks like I'll be buying the crab meal and maybe some insect frass for my vermicompost project. Maybe I'll pick up the oyster shell powder to hold for future use.
I ended up ordering my crab shell from amazon.com. Its kind of chunky so I used my blender to blend it to about a powder. Then just added 1 cup per cubic foot of soil. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00606PQJI/ref=oh_details_o06_s01_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 It was only $34.99 back a couple months ago when I ordered it. Now they want $44.29, but it does go a long ways. I just planted a seedling in the soil that was amended with that crab shell and its doing good so far. It will probably be awhile until I get the end results.
Crab meal and insect frass for vermicompost????? Do you have a bin(s) going now? Or, are planning on starting one up? It's a good thing, but you usually end up killing the first one or 2 batches of worms before you learn to stop with the 'overs'. Over feeding, over watering, over loving, over thinking ....... I'm going on my 4th year and have wiped out a few bins. LOL Like with growing for the first time, get from start to finish once before you try and get 'creative'. It's all good, just take it slow. Wet
$35.00 for fifty pounds... http://www.countrysideorganics.com/product.php?productid=116&cat=27&page=1 J
I'm just referring to that Maine organization document, which may or may not be a good authority on the subject. On page 21, it says, "Like clam and mussel shells, oyster shells are not of great value. They are composed of calcium carbonate (lime), and do not contain protein or chitin. (Actually, they do contain chitin but in such small quantities that it is not worth retrieving.) Crushed clam and oyster shells are often used in place of gravel to form walks and driveways in the mid-Atlan- tic region, so one way to get rid of the shells is to con- tact contractors and builders there. Another use is as cultch for new oyster beds. Processors are sometimes misled by reading that oyster shells are used as calcium supplements for laying hens. This leads them to believe that their shell piles may have real value. The true story with regard to calcium and laying hens is as follows. There are two major sources of calcium in nutrition: “oyster shellsâ€, which sell at about $120 - 150/ton and mineral (mined) limestone, which sells at about $20 - 40/ton.." \nAlso there's another interesting section on Page 36 they mention Coast of Maine and get into a dry academic discussion on composting--perhaps from a non-gardeners' perspective. You may or may not find it interesting, Jerry.
I can't remember what thread I was reading, but I culled these instructions from LD's posts to produce a large volume of vermicompost, as opposed to merely recycling kitchen scraps. 1. mix aged manure & thermal compost 2. combime 4 parts of this mix to 1 part Rice Hulls 3. to each 1 cu. ft., add 3 cups of rock dust & 1 cup of meals(1 cup total of kelp&crab OR kelp&crab&neem seed meals) 4. wet it down on the ground, then add to 60 gallon smart pots 5. Put cardcoard under the smartpots if on concrete floor. 6. Add red wiggler worms. Then just keep it moist, and if you do it in September you should have a lot of good vermicompost with worms & cocoons by around next February. I haven't started it yet, but i'm almost ready to. My smartpots are 45s and 100s only, so hopefully those sizes will work instead of LDs recommended 60 gallon size.
That's alot of crab meal Rizzo - I've looked around; it's a good deal. Perfect to add directly to your compost heap as well as your soil mix for all the standard reasons. J Edit: I find I truly save money and time spent running around when I buy 50 pound sacks of whatever vs smaller sacks more often. It lasts for years when stored dry, you've always got whatever you need when you need it and you don't need to go out of your way to get more - for a long time anyhow.