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Could someone help? THC & CBD

Discussion in 'Medical Marijuana Usage and Applications' started by thinkingmagpie, Jul 14, 2012.

  1. #1 thinkingmagpie, Jul 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 14, 2012
    Hello, a newbie here. :wave:

    I've been reading and researching stuff about the health benefits of cannabis and come across sooooooo many theories and things which sometimes contradict itself...:(
    I want to clarify some facts and am wondering if some of you here could help me out.

    Please correst me if I'm wrong, I'd really like to understand about THC and CBD.

    --------

    Cannabis contains Canabinoids - there are a lot of different ones but to name a couple, THC and CBD.

    THC is a psychoactive compound, which basically make you "high".
    CBD is a compound which is beneficial for all sorts of health stuff and it is not psychoactive.

    The amount of THC/CBD containts in plants are different depending on the strain, envirornment and how they grew. The whole plant contains canabinoids, but the higher concentration is found on the trichrome covered flower heads.

    To get better "high" from cannabis, you need to heat it. (smoking, making various edibles, green dragon, etc.) (THC-A into THC)

    If you want health benefits from cannabis without the effect of getting high, you shouldn't heat it. Use it raw (juicing & etc.) or make a cold method tincture.

    Question:
    1. If you want to use cannabis as a pain killer, do you have to heat the plant? Is THC the analgesic?

    2. When you heat the plant, does it affect the integrity of CBD in it?

    3. As the flower(bud) matures, the persentage of CBD in the trichrome increases?

    4. Can you get high from non-heated cannabis? Like eating a lot of buds?
     
  2. Hey Magpie,

    You've been reading, haven't you? :)

    I am certainly not the most qualified to answer your questions (there are a lot of people smarter than I am hanging out here) but I will give it a shot.

    1- Heating the plant matter to the appropriate temprature bringson a process called decarboxylation that aids in completeing the conversion of THC-A and CBD-A into THC & CBD. As best I understand, THC is an analgesic and CBD an anti-inflamitory. Both have other healing properties as well.

    2 - As far as I know, if you don't heat it beyond typical consumption methods you will not significantly degrade the CBD.

    3 - Some may say yes to this but my best understanding is that CBD/THC content is genetically determined and THC does not convert to CBD as the bud matures.

    4 - Absolutely! But heating to accomodate the decarb process will make them much more potent.

    I hope this helps and I hope that some of our peers who are more knowlegable than I am will chime in.

    Peace.

    J.
     
  3. Magpie,

    after rereading your post I get the impression that you may be looking for health benefits without the "high". If so, I would suggest that you look at the info on the Project CBD site. I am partial to high CBD strains that have considerable health benefits with minimal psychoactive effects.

    J.
     
  4. I'm pretty sure that juicing or eating raw, unheated cannabis doesn't get you high and that it would not treat pain. You have to heat up the cannabis to turn THC-A into THC, like you said, to relieve pain.

    As for if the flower(bud) matures, the persentage of CBD in the trichrome increases question, I don't know.

    If heating affect the integrity of CBD, I don't think so. If anything, I think it releases it depending on the temperature.

    And if you are trying to get the health benefits, juicing would be the best.

    You probably already see this, but I'm posting anyways:laughing:

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-iU9QN0fEM]LEAF [Juicing Raw Cannabis] Re-Upload - YouTube[/ame]
     
  5. Thanks James & weed :)

    weed -- Yep, I watched that video. In fact, these juicing videos and articles made me wonder about the heating & non-heating stuff.

    James -- I like the "high" as well, of course.:D But I'm also greatly interested in the purely health benefits side of cannabis as well. I'd like to keep using cannabis for various reasons but sometimes getting high is inconvenient... The other day, I made a really lovely fresh basil pesto with cannabis buds for lunch, and the whole afternoon got completely wasted.:D

    I'm gonna take a look at the Project CBD site. Thanks for the info. :smoke:
     
  6.  

  7. I haven't tried raw yet, maybe put some young leaves in salad and try some tomorrow. I sometimes sprinkle some dried ones on main dish like a herb seasoning. Smells lovely. ;)
     
  8. #8 Asthmatic, Jul 16, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 16, 2012
    Both THC and CBD are anti-inflammatory medicines and they work best when they are allowed to work together. CBD turns down the high but also makes it last a little longer.

    As a pain killer MMJ is best made into a topical ointment and rubbed onto the area where the pain is. It works best for me on old aches and injuries that wont go away. In my life fresh bobos are better managed with opiates if you can stand to take them. I met a guy today that says he went through a shoulder replacement surgery with nothing but the ointment. We both use the same brand. I get better absorption when I stay away from ointments that contain wax. I've also used topical oils that work well for pain, again apply it to where it hurts. Weather you end up high or not depends on how strong the ointment is and how much of your body you cover with it. I've encountered stuff that a finger tip full sat me down for the day but most of the people who make ointments & oils keep the potency down to reasonable levels. One maker makes the same product in three different strengths and labels them clearly as single double and triple strength.

    Personally from experience relief improves with regular use. I started out using the ointment about 4 times a day and the longer I used it the less I needed. After a month or two I was down to 3 times a day then two.... Now I only use one BIG dose once a day at bed time for pain and I eat some Hashish/Kief with it so pain will not wake me up at night. The simple answer put it on at bed time and then sleep through it. Yoga, Qigong or Taijiquan will all help your medicine work better for you if you have enough health for gentle exercise.

    I do take 4 little doses during the day by mouth for asthma but that is another story.

    I've never really understood what the juicers were up to but I have read one paper that talks about using unheated canabinoids I just didn't get what they were doing and why but yes pain treatment was part of it. Other than that you should talk to a juicer about how raw juice is used.

    I Don't recommend eating whole raw buds in large amounts though a little taste is fine. It can cause gastric distress & diarrhea.

    If you need to learn to make your own ointment read this thread and ask me for a recipe there.

    http://forum.grasscity.com/medical-...s/869718-how-make-medical-grade-hemp-oil.html

    the stuff I buy is better than the stuff I make but not by very much. I don't have the financial resources to test for and balance THC with CBD or it could be much better.

    hope this helpes you feel better.
     
  9. Thanks Asthmatic. I really appreciate the info from your personal experience!

    I'm curious... My friend suddenly got asthma earlier this year and now she is on medication. Does cannabis ease the attack?
     
  10. #10 Storm Crow, Jul 16, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 16, 2012
    These may provide some interesting reading-

    Unheated Cannabis sativa extracts and its major compound THC-acid have potential immuno-modulating properties not mediated by CB1 and CB2 receptor coupled pathways. (abst - 2006)
    Unheated Cannabis sativa extracts and it... [Int Immunopharmacol. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI

    Form of medical marijuana won't get you high, but it's creating a buzz (news - 2010)
    Form of medical marijuana won't get you high, but it's creating a buzz

    Juiced Marijuana Offered to Medical Users as Alternative to Smoking (news - 2010)
    Juiced Marijuana Offered to Medical Users as Alternative to Smoking | The Partnership

    Marijuana cannabinoids - oral and transdermal methods (news – 2011)
    Marijuana cannabinoids - oral and transdermal methods

    Raw Cannabis Juice and the Link to Clinical Cannabinoid Deficiency (news – 2012)
    Raw Cannabis Juice and the Link to Clinical Cannabinoid

    Juicing medical marijuana the latest trend in amazing cures (news – 2012)
    Juicing medical marijuana the latest trend in amazing cures

    And asthma? Long history there, but the smoke irritates the lungs. A vaporizer or edibles would be much better! Some oldies-

    Acute effects of smoked marijuana and oral delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol on specific airway conductance in asthmatic subjects (full - 1974) http://www.ukcia.org/research/SmokedAndOralInAsthmatic.php

    Effects of smoked marijuana in experimentally induced asthma. (full - 1975)
    http://www.ukcia.org/research/InducedAsthma/index.php

    Bronchodilator effect of delta1-tetrahydrocannabinol administered by aerosol of asthmatic patients. (full - 1976)
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC470501/?tool=pmcentrez&page=1

    Bronchial effects of aerosolized delta 9-tetrahydrocannabinol (abst - 1977)
    http://www.cannabis-med.org/studies/ww_en_db_study_show.php?s_id=109

    Bronchodilator effect of delta1-tetrahydrocannabinol. (full - 1978)
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1429361/

    Comparison of bronchial effects of nabilone and terbutaline (abst - 1983)
    http://www.cannabis-med.org/studies/ww_en_db_study_show.php?s_id=43

    And some new ones- a bit more complex, since science has moved on since the 70s-

    Activation of cannabinoid receptors prevents antigen-induced asthma-like reaction in guinea pigs. (abst – 2008) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18266975

    Cannabinoids as novel anti-inflammatory drugs. (full - 2009)
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2828614/?tool=pubmed

    Cannabinoid-induced apoptosis in immune cells as a pathway to immunosuppression. (full - 2010) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3005548/?tool=pubmed

    Beneficial effects of cannabinoids (CB) in a murine model of allergen-induced airway inflammation: Role of CB(1)/CB(2) receptors. (abst - 2010)
    http://www.unboundmedicine.com/medl..._inflammation:_Role_of_CB_1_/CB_2__receptors_

    The cannabinoid receptor agonist WIN 55,212-2 inhibits antigen-induced plasma extravasation in guinea pig airways. (abst – 2010) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20150748

    Allergen Challenge Increases Anandamide in Bronchoalveolar Fluid of Patients With Allergic Asthma (abst – 2011) http://www.nature.com/clpt/journal/v90/n3/full/clpt201194a.html

    The Role of Cannabinoids In Inflammatory Modulation of Allergic Respiratory Disorders, Inflammatory Pain and Ischemic Stroke. (abst – 2012)
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22420307

    Cannabinoid Receptor Activity In The Tumour Necrosis Factor (tnf)−α-Induced Increased Contractility Of The Guinea-Pig Isolated Trachea (abst – 2012)

    You might want to check out the bottom of my sig and send me an email- I send out a huge collection of studies like those above absolutely FREE to everyone who asks! My List comes as a PDF (or WORD if you ask). Hotmail users get it in 2 parts, because hotmail can't handle the List in one piece- it's just too darn big!
     
  11. Crow, that's absolutely great! Thanks!
    I'll send you an email. :)
     
  12. #12 Asthmatic, Jul 16, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2012
    Yes as long a she doesn't try to smoke her dose. I don't even like to vape my self because it causes rebound asthma for me, but in a pinch I'll vape through my nose. It is much slower than traditional drugs she should keep her albuterol or what ever until she knows what to expect from MMJ. I still have an active prescription on file un-filled at my local pharmacy for Albuterol for my Dr's & wife's peace of mind, they might as well sleep easy at night.

    My experience is that the symptoms of a mild attack are too similar to the sensation of being high so I think it is risky to use it solely as a rescue medication and I don't. I never know if I need more medicine or I've taken too much. The advantages of using the medicine as an anti-inflammatory / preventive medicine are too great to play with not taking it until I need it. It works best for me to dose by the clock 3 or 4 times a day 24/7/365 and then add to it if I'm coughing or have the tight in the chest sensation. My tolerance for air pollution is improved and I can now at 55 for the first time in my life enjoy aerobic exercise. I was diagnosed when I was 4. Using a Neti Pot when I need to up my dose, and controlling any exposure to known irritants is also part of my routine.

    Right now I'm home sick struggling with a URI. They were always a big deal for me in the past. It was Oxygen tent stuff when I was little around 1960, came close to killing me in 1990. I'd be in bed right now a sleep if I could get to sleep. But since I'm off the Advair I have fewer URI's of shorter duration and less severity. I rarely have to suffer through Codeine Cough Syrup any more a drug I've truly grown to hate. Now they are mostly in the "Well that was a pain in the but" range and no worse. I would Love for this head ache to go away though.

    Here is a link to my asthma medicine recipe it's about 2/3's of the way down the page, any Hash Oil will work fine I like the taste of the stuff I make better than most but it is lots of work to make.

    http://forum.grasscity.com/blogs/asthmatic/31866-r-x-file.html

    I've known about the use since I was old enough to read the word cannabis but can't remember what book I read it in. Mom poo pooed it on legal grounds. Asthma has come down through the generations to me, my mother, her father, his mother. I had relatives who used it for asthma before prohibition when it was one of the few drugs known to be helpful though it had lost much of it's popularity by 1900 because of shelf life issues and inconsistency of dose problems that resulted from the poor handling practices. It was hell dragging the who of it out of her. Her favorite uncle on her mothers side of the family threatened with death and ran out of town never to be seen again around 1937 or so.
     
  13. Thanks for the great info, Asthmatic.
    I'll pass the info & recipe to my friend.

    I've been interested in natural remedies, especially herbs & medicinal plants, as long as I remember. My encounter with cannabis as a healing plant wasn't that long time ago but as I get to learn more about it, I get fascinated by it even more.
     
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