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Container warmers

Discussion in 'Growing Organic Marijuana' started by jerry111165, Oct 25, 2011.

  1. Winter is coming and my veg area gets chilly - old Maine root cellar, ya know.
    Anyhow, it gets down to around 55 degrees in the deep winter, and last year I built this stupid clear plastic and strapping greenhouse thingy over the small area I use, but it got way too humid - didn't do what I was hoping it would. So I've been thinking about this, and I don't really think that 55 degrees is too bad for the vegetation, but it definetly is for the root zone. I use fairly large pots, probably ten gallons and was thinking that some kind of "seedling warmer mats" wrapped around the pots might work really well to keep the pots and root zone nice and cozy. Good idea? I think it would work out just fine.

    Does anyone have any experience with this or any ideas regarding this sort of thing? If so, any ideas where I could find a decent deal on approximately 14"X3'? Should I use some kind of thermosatat setup with something like this?

    Thanks in advance for any thoughts or ideas.

    Jerry.
     
  2. #2 WeeDroid, Oct 25, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2011
    There are a variety of ideas for warming roots. Not too sure exactly what you are doing though. Is this an indoor grow in your root cellar then?

    Here are some ideas:

    I use botainicare trays to keep my pots in. Underneath is a water reservoir with an aquarium heater (and air stone) to keep the water at about 72F. As heat rises, it warms the tray and plants above it. Keeping the reservoir on a set of 2by4s and maybe adding some insulation under it would help a lot.

    You can get germination heating mats and put them under your pots. I would leave a wee air gap (with some shims maybe) between the mat and the pots though.

    If this is indoors and you are using lights, can you duct the heat from your lights and feed the warm air under and/or around your plants maybe?

    Another idea is to keep your greenhouse and just put a dehumidifier in there. I find they keep moisture down and temps up and stable. Or you could just use an oil radiator and vent the area better. Air flow is critical. ;)
     
  3. I'm in the basement also and it will hit 52* coldest. What I did was run an Aladdin Blue Flame kerosene heater down there.

    Provides heat and CO2. Ones that burn with a yellow flame don't do the CO2 well because of incomplete combustion. They kick out ~9,000 BTU, not big, but aren't made anymore.

    IDK about this winter with the cost of K1 so high, but we'll see.

    Wet
     
  4. These containers are too big for trays. I'm not sure - they may even be 15 gallons - my buddy got me a mess of them and they are perfect for me. He said that they originally had trees from the nursery in them - very heavy duty. I was thinking if I could perhaps wrap some kind of seedling warmer mats right around the pots themselves, maybe w/ bungee cords or something. The small standard heat mats are just too small for these pots - it would definetly take 2 to wrap around them...

    Yes, Wee, this is my indoor veg area in the root cellar. The flower area with. Several 1,000K lights is upstairs in the main house.

    I was just thinking if I could gently warm the root zone/pots themselves that they would be fine just like that and the air temp wouldn't really matter as long as it didn't go below 50*....

    Jerry
     

  5. Duct the hot air from your 1Ks down into your basement. It will raise temps (you really want to be at 75F anyway) and help reduce humidity. Then you don't have to buy extra crap and spend more money on your electrical bills.
     
  6. Would something like these cables work? Perhaps wrap them around the pots or even look at some gutter heaters.

    chunk
     
  7. Wee - great idea, but just not feasible. Too far. Other end of the house. Through the granite foundation.

    Chunk - just what I was thinking. Seems pretty inexpensive, and I bet is just a faint trickle of electricity...hmmm....

    Gotta look into this some more. That could be just the ticket to wrap 3-4 times around the pots just to keep them slightly warm...



    jerry
     
  8. I have a nice space heater well that heats up my entire bedroom which is huge! Its electrical so no chance of off gassing like I think there would be with kerosene
     
  9. Oh nonsense! Ducts can go anywhere!
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Jerry,

    How big is the footprint of your grow space? I'm a long time tile setter and I've installed in-floor heat mats in bathrooms complete with thermostats. There are pre-sized heat mats available that can be installed and hardwired right into a separate circuit.

    We used to tile over the mats, but there are self leveling concrete products that would cover the mats that would replace your floor. The radiant heat would keep the root zone warm and toasty. The cost would depend on the size of your grow space but it would be a one time outlay to have a long time radiant heat source.

    Lowes and Home Depot have these mats available.
     



  11. Morning JerryDude, I hear ya on the basement grows and the cold. I've got the same issue. Isn't wonderful though that seemingly no matter where one is located geographically their basements are always right around ~50F in the winter time.

    Stankie purchased seed heating mats and has good things to say about them. Following is a link (first one in the search stack - there are many offerings)

    Heating Coils and Mats | Growing and Propagating | Agriculture Solutions LLC

    That will take you through some of the different products. I'd not thought about brother Chunk's suggestion and that is a good one also. the one caveat that Stankie pointed out was "make sure you buy the thermostat...." as you do want these thermostatically controlled.

    Last year I was going to purchase the 3' soil cables and wrap them inside my 3g-5g containers. But, I finally got my oil filled radiant heater dialed in correctly and I didn't have to. But there's another potential solution - an oil filled radiant heater. No glowing red and only a little bitty "on" light that can be easily covered up with tape or something.

    You are definitely on the right track bro and for a whole lot of good reasons to keep the soil warm. I think the most important reason to keep the soil up in the "recommended zones" is the negative impact cold can have on P availability and perhaps some of the other nutrients as well. P does not play well in temps lower that ~68F and certainly it does not play well at temp of 60F and lower. So you are right on the money warming it up bro.

    Perhaps your visquene dome didn't have proper ventilation and the humidity became a problem. IDK. The mats, the cables, the radiant heater.... you have choices but the word is if you go a mat or a cable - BUY THE THERMOSTAT.

    HTH'S 'cha!
     

  12. Depends on the heater with the kero.

    Seems like the newer ones that have been *lawyerized* do not burn very well and off gas like crazy. The yellow flame is a dead giveaway.

    The ones I use burn with a blue flame and only give off CO2 and water vapor. The youngest one is also over 40 years old. Very efficient, but nothing in the way of idiot proofing.

    I would also guess that stuff like making the fuel tank out of brass got expensive also. Never have to worry about it rusting out and leaking though.

    Wet
     
  13. Thanks guys.

    Chunk, in the "temporary" space that the veg area is in, I dont want to go through all that work. It is an actual "root cellar" - great big stone walls and a simple sand/crushed gravel floor.

    This is only a temporary area for me, tho...(hopefully). There is a "shed", which incorporates part of my kitchen that needs rebuilding, and is now simply sitting on granite slabs - no basement. This home/farmhouse is approximately 200 years old - maybe even a little older. The beams in the cellar still have bark on them. :)

    The shed area, hopefully next spring, is going to be torn down. I want to put a full foundation under it for the new grow area, which will hold both veg/clone area, flower area, and also a drying zone, with some workshop space - work tables, etc. The space will be approximately 20' X 32', so I think that this will be sufficient. We are (trying) *lol* to save now for this. I'm going to build the new space (kitchen and etc. area) out of rough cut hemlock with open beams, keeping the rustic look of the house. Goint to be a neat project.

    So anyhow, this is just a temporary thing, having the veg area in the root cellar. We heat our home with an outdoor wood furnace, (what a great unit) that holds 400 gallons of hot water, and pumps it underground through insulated lines into the cellar, where it heats both our domestic hot water, and heats the house. By utilizing this (literally) 1,000,000 btu wood furnace, I am probably going to be putting radiant heat in the new addition cement floor, so I will be able to take care of the heating of the grow area in the winter this way, and will naturally be cooler in the summer being underground, so that will be taken care of that way. Trying to cover all my bases.

    Possum - I remember now, that Stankie was doing this. Completely forgot. I can see this website link you sent, or at least something on this idea working perfectly for me, for my "temporary" cool cellar heating issue.

    Thanks very much for taking the time - all of you, to help me out. Great ideas, all of them. I'm positive I can make something work out here now.

    Gotta keep that soil and critters happy and warm! Last winter my veg slowed down to a standstill due to cool temps - I will not go thru that again.

    Thanks again. I mean it.

    jerry.
     
  14. I can recommend an electric blanket, single bed size, keep a thermometer handy to measure the temp. of the soil at the pot base, most single bed/cot electric blankets can fit a small growspace. Cover it with heavy plastc and or pin it to heavy cardboard or ply as it has a tendency to curl up, costs about 60-85 watts.
    If to hot raise pot on wood blocks 1/2 inch square..
    good luck
    "V"
     
  15. #15 WeeDroid, Oct 28, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2011
    Jerry,

    If at all possible I urge you to find a way to utilize the waste heat from your 1K units to help warm your home and such. It's far more green and organic than burning wood to do so. Not to say you should get rid of your lovely wood burning system at all. It sounds quite fantastic. But you can be less dependent on burning wood (and creating pollution) if you supplement your system with the waste heat from your 1Ks.

    Something to think about perhaps? If I was so lucky as to own a home and property, I would be all over it like fungus in a Bokashi compost pit. :D In the long run it will save you money and labor.

    Maine is a beautiful state. I use to live on the eastern side of CT.
     
  16. Set the pots on a water bed heater/with thermostat, or use the seedling heating mats under the pots. You could also wrap the pots in the bubble wrap aluminum insulation for more protection to the root zone.

    PW
     
  17. That sounds the best yet.

    The waterbed heater (I guess, IDK), would be heavy duty and waterproof construction.

    Depends on $$$$ I guess.

    Wet
     
  18. #18 pointswest, Oct 29, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 29, 2011
    I live in a college town and when the students leave, you can often find water beds and heaters in the trash they leave behind. I also look for these items in thrift stores and resale shops.

    I have both the seed mats and the waterbed heaters and the waterbed mat is much more sturdy and is big enough for a seedling flat and a few pots on the end. Most waterbed heaters have a good thermostat attached to the mat, mine is adjustable from 70F to 100F. I place a piece of Styrofoam on the bottom, then the mat, and then cover with a plastic sheet. Set the flats or pots on this arrangement and most of the heat is transferred to the pots and is not lost to the ground or bench.

    PW
     
  19. Jerry

    1. How much money can you afford to throw at this project?

    2. Equally important is how good are you with working with building materials and tools in general? Plywood, low-level framing, etc.

    It's doable to keep both the root/soil mass at a correct (maybe sustainable is a better word) and heat the chamber at the same time through radiant heat from the floor that is raised about 6" from the concrete.

    Basically you build a 6" high box that is sealed on all sides. Holes are drilled every 8" on center (or whatever you decide is best). Squirrel-cage fans are placed around all four sides pulling in air that is forced through the holes in the flooring up through the canopy.

    A solid space heater(s) will fill out the project. Ain't perfect but it's less $$ than going with commercial-sized heating mats and then you have the controllers to consider. You could spend $600.00 easy on a system that would be about the size of a sheet of plywood. Real easy.

    HTH

    LD
     
  20. Jerry

    I'm heading out the door to look at some portable heat pumps this afternoon - they heat, cool and dehumidify. Looks like the decent ones are running in the $500 - $600 range.

    LD
     

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