[quote name='"fif3l"'] Microbeman has very respectable credentials in this area. He has contributed a ton of great info. [/quote] Oh and for the record you have known me for a long time fif3l. When am I argumentative? I'm not. PS aloe has carbohydrates but not as many per ounce as molasses. However, I'll switch back to molasses if someone can show me that the microbes can finish it all off before I pour it into my soil. I got tired even with small amounts of seeing it runoff and out of my smart pots. Molasses is a by product of refining sugar much of which comes from GMO modified sugar beets and not cane sugar these days. Sure, I know you can get organic unsulfered molasses. But for me (and the scope you've seen me use) aloe produces great colonies . So if I see something that I know isn't the case, I'm goin to call it out. Maybe LD did pull it out of his ass, it works well for me .
Please share your scope results. I have been communicating with 'LD' off forum for around 6 years and through several forums for close to 10 years. I am one scientist that he gets much of his information from and I have done direct testing for him. I am presently awaiting delivery of a sample from him. I consider him a friend and am sure he feels the same about me. Although I do not think I deserve the label, he has described me as a scientist without peer. As for the Aloe Vera, perhaps it is good as a fungal and bacterial/archaeal food. As I said I have not tested it, one reason I've asked you to share your microscopy results. I'll have to get around to testing it. When I read that 'LD' had recommended it along with agave, I inquired about this, found the origin of the information (except for the actual carb ratings, etc which make sense) and found it was based on what a very good friend of mine had said but had not really backed it up microscopically. The best way to test a substance as a microbial foodstock (for ACT) is to test it by itself with [vermi]compost and water. This is how we discovered that humic acid is not a good microbial food in a liquid and that kelp can delay bacterial division and that some sphagnum peatmoss is loaded with microbes and that black strap molasses feeds fungi as well as bacteria/archaea.
If you believe that the dissolved oxygen must be maintained over 5.9 PPM and are brewing longer than 8 hours you better only put 2 gallons of water in your 5 gallon bucket. You will get greater fungal activity if you lose the sock. We've just been running tests every day for a 10 gal brewer with and without [vermi]compost in a paint strainer and getting virtually no fungal hyphae with the mesh bag.
[quote name='"Microbeman"'] If you believe that the dissolved oxygen must be maintained over 5.9 PPM and are brewing longer than 8 hours you better only put 2 gallons of water in your 5 gallon bucket. You will get greater fungal activity if you lose the sock. We've just been running tests every day for a 10 gal brewer with and without [vermi]compost in a paint strainer and getting virtually no fungal hyphae with the mesh bag.[/quote] What could possibly prevent the microbes from multiplying in a cotton sock saturated in the same fluid? That makes so little sense that I'm highly confused as to what the root cause would be. How would a barrier that in the microscopic world doesn't not even exist as a barrier at all prevent growth? This goes for cheesecloth or stockings as well. So as a scientist what is the explanation? Less oxygen saturation through the sock? As far as dissolved oxygen as a PPM how can you make such an assumption without knowing the pump size? I'm not debating these points just seeking knowledge. As far as providing slide samples how would that possibly prove anything? I can label my slides anything I want. I suggest you do what any scientist does and recreate the experiment so you can see for yourself. Or you could drop by my thread and see what I call the best evidence of all. Dank with growers like Deacon who has 30 years of smokin saying its some of the best smoke around. Sweet to taste smooth and an amazing high to boot. Have you tested FPEs and confirmed what I have? Highly acidic and should also be oxygenated before long term use? Curious on that as well.
[quote name='"drhell2pay"'] Oh and for the record you have known me for a long time fif3l. When am I argumentative? I'm not. PS aloe has carbohydrates but not as many per ounce as molasses. However, I'll switch back to molasses if someone can show me that the microbes can finish it all off before I pour it into my soil. I got tired even with small amounts of seeing it runoff and out of my smart pots. Molasses is a by product of refining sugar much of which comes from GMO modified sugar beets and not cane sugar these days. Sure, I know you can get organic unsulfered molasses. But for me (and the scope you've seen me use) aloe produces great colonies . So if I see something that I know isn't the case, I'm goin to call it out. Maybe LD did pull it out of his ass, it works well for me .[/quote] I know doc. That'd why I just wanted to put that out there. I like ld. I like you. Helll I like everyone. I don't like when there are riffs. I'm not saying anyone is wrong. I just like the peace.
[quote name='"drhell2pay"'] What could possibly prevent the microbes from multiplying in a cotton sock saturated in the same fluid? That makes so little sense that I'm highly confused as to what the root cause would be. How would a barrier that in the microscopic world doesn't not even exist as a barrier at all prevent growth? This goes for cheesecloth or stockings as well. So as a scientist what is the explanation? Less oxygen saturation through the sock? As far as dissolved oxygen as a PPM how can you make such an assumption without knowing the pump size? I'm not debating these points just seeking knowledge. As far as providing slide samples how would that possibly prove anything? I can label my slides anything I want. I suggest you do what any scientist does and recreate the experiment so you can see for yourself. Or you could drop by my thread and see what I call the best evidence of all. Dank with growers like Deacon who has 30 years of smokin saying its some of the best smoke around. Sweet to taste smooth and an amazing high to boot. Have you tested FPEs and confirmed what I have? Highly acidic and should also be oxygenated before long term use? Curious on that as well.[/quote] The sock breaks up the fungal hyphae. It prevents them from making the long strands that we are looking for.
[quote name='"Franklinstein"'] This is why the 'Soil Soup' pump setup was so bad -- it pulverized the long strands.[/quote] This is also the reason mm and ld said not to use too small of an airstone,the small bubbles also break them up. You want medium sized bubbles
Just for the record, I did not say that. That information comes from SFI and I actually do not agree with it. I do agree that a water pump can break up hyphae.
[quote name='"Microbeman"'] Just for the record, I did not say that. That information comes from SFI and I actually do not agree with it. I do agree that a water pump can break up hyphae.[/quote] Whoops! Sorry bro.
Interesting. I see I can add no value to this thread as anything I say will be rebutted with superior intellect beyond my comprehension. in the spirit of keeping the vibes pleasant here I will unsub before I say things I shouldn't. Enjoy the singular point of view. In the meantime ill continue to use a brew sock. My microbes are unique to his .
[quote name='"drhell2pay"']Interesting. I see I can add no value to this thread as anything I say will be rebutted with superior intellect beyond my comprehension. in the spirit of keeping the vibes pleasant here I will unsub before I say things I shouldn't. Enjoy the singular point of view. In the meantime ill continue to use a brew sock. My microbes are unique to his .[/quote] Please don't. I've been lurking again....and what I've noticed here is several great minds stimulating great conversation. MM even stated he planned on running tests with aloe I believe, and I for one can't wait to hear the results(if he would be so kind as to post them). And I'm sure your curious as well, right? I'll have to look, but I believe there is a whole chapter in Teaming With Microbes on using aloe as a foodstock for teas. Boro LD come back and weigh in!
Please do not confuse discourse with any personal argument. You will not find a trace of this in what I have said. I only responded honestly to your questions at the same level I do with my best of friends and academic colleagues. I assumed if you are using a microscope that you are familiar with identifying 'basic' soil microbial groups. If you would like to learn there is a lot of information here; Microbe Organics for microbe identification and if you email me and tell me who you are I'll send you some free educational material.
I don't have a microscope. Someday I would like to have one but of course with 3 kids, a wife, a cat, chickens, a horse and a house to (hehe) maintain, I just haven't gotten one. I've got a great brewer, tho, and I use Microbemans and LD's very basic recipes. It seems to work really well. Until I'm able to pick up a 'scope and even find the time to do it, I gotta rely on you guys to guide me properly. At least you guys have scopes to help guide us po' dirt farmers that ain't got one of them there devices.
Right on mister. You two are both super valuable minds here. That's what I think anyhow. Debate is great. J
I agree thanks for bouncing ideas around as usual.... I know what I want in my santa's stockings next christmas!