Hey GC! So I'm 10 days into my first grow, 5 white Rhino, 2 Ice Breaker, and a Big Bang 2 in coco coir, going well so far (fingers crossed), and in my quest to become more knowledgeable along the way, I'm doing what I guess most of us do to begin with and reading every bit of weed related literature I can find. Obviously when it comes to growing, everybody has their own technique, feeding regime, light schedule, etc etc.....I have read many debates about the rights and wrongs of every method, and the confusing thing for a beginner like myself is that I can see good and bad in both arguments, so making it difficult to make an informed decision. Anyway, to get to the point, I have just been reading a thread on another site (won't post the link as I'm not sure it's allowed) that strongly advocates the constant defoliation of all fan leaves and lower branches, right the way through from veg to harvest?. The OP states he has been doing this for over 30 years, and gets at least 20-30% improved yield using this method. I haven't read the whole thread yet (288 pages) but so far it seems that there are many who concur! Up until now I had read debates regarding the pros and cons of removing some fan leaves, some lower branches, basically to make way for more light exposure to bud sites or better air supply, but this is the first I have heard about total defoliation right through the plants life cycle. As a first time grower I won't be attempting anything this drastic just yet lol, but I'm interested to know if anybody else has?, does it work?, and surely is it not detrimental to the plants health to be stripped off every single leaf?.
I did a lot of defoliation this time cause trimming small bud is a pain in the hoop Sent from my GT-I8190N using Grasscity Forum mobile app
If you cut all the leaves off hardly any bud would grow because the plant wouldn't be able to make any food in order to turn in to bud. I think almost everyone will agree with that. So plants definitely need their leaves. If you cut a few leaves off, so many that the restriction of food production is so great that the plant can't now make as much bud as before then this is obviously a negative effect. The restricted food production that happens in the leaves becomes the most limiting factor of growth. If you are able to cut leaves off without any change in bud production then your most limiting factor must be in another area. Quite possibly oxygen to the roots, this is a common limiting factor in lots of grows, especially soil. I try to keep my plants productivity as high as possible so limiting its resources by chopping leaves off is plain madness in my book. They are called leaves for a reason, leaves them alone lol. The only time I take leaves off is when I have no choice because the whole branch is coming off and the leaves obviously have to come with it. Lollipopping is something I practice because clearing up tiny crappy buds from down below is very labour intensive. All growing tips, and bud is a drain on resources so pinching out lower tips and perhaps entire branches can lower the overall demand on resources and therefore the larger bud sites have access to them. Leaves create the resources so don't cut any of those off. If the plant isn't using them then it will drop them anyway
I agree with goldgrower. Some defoliation is ok, I usually always clear out the undergrowth and baby bud sites taking a few clones while I'm at it. Total defoliation will only stunt your plants growth. I experimented with defoliating all fan leafs a couple years ago and will never again. If you are going to defoliate then do it while it is still in vegetative growth and try not to during flowering. When cannabis is in full flower it produces flowering hormones and decreases the amount of growth hormones that aid the plant in repairing itself.
from what ive read indicas love defoliating and sativas hate it. no matter what never cut leafs in flower. Cant speak for myself only 1 grow, just what I read somewhere
Well that's enough to confirm to me not to take a set of shears to my babies! lol Thing I don't get though, is that even though this all makes perfect sense, and plants need energy from their leaves to create bigger buds, how come there are 288 pages on this thread, and from what I can see, the majority of people agreeing with the op that it increases yield and bud density?. I don't see how that's possible, but to give this guy some credit, the pics he posted of his harvests looked quite impressive?. Again, I'm of the mindset that if it ain't broke, don't fix it, so I won't be attempting this, just trying to find out if there is any logic behind the method, or in other words any method behind the madness?? lol
Certainly no logic behind simple plucking off random hard working leaves. They have had a lot of energy invested in them and once grown they pay it back many times over supplying the plant with food so it can grow more leaves, and when the time comes, bud. The type of people that think plants grow better without leaves is the same type that think plants grow by magic. The opinions of these people should be discarded
Probably the same thread I read a couple years back. If it is you should read post #83 posted by the author which I will now quote. " The point with defoliating is it creates a compact plant. If I were not trying to fit a 10oz finished plant into 32" cubed I could leave the leaves but with leaves left on this plant will be far too large for that alotted space. So yes the yield may come out the same but the leafy plant will end up twice the size of the defoliated one. Therefore indoors with limited space you can produce more weight per square foot on smaller plants by defoliation. I'm using whatever possible for "growth control" I'd rather call it taming. " This says it all. The extra time wasted while the plant recovers and heals does not appear to affect the yield as much as that thread would have anyone beleive. Your yield will be the same as if you left the leafs alone but would take longer to get to harvest when using this method. It appears to be for those who want a compact plant or have space issues and don't mind the extra time. At least that is what I gather from the information provided.
How much extra room do the fan leaves actually take up though? They will overlap with neighbouring leaves. So what he is saying is, if you strip the plant's leaves, the plant becomes smaller, so you can fit more plants in to the same space. Each plant will be stunted because of the lost leaves but the extra numbers make up for this plus more? It's an interesting argument at least. I think SOG uses the same principle as far as packing small plants in to a small space. But I think ScrOG is one step better than his idea because with ScrOG you can have each leader so tightly packed and produce so much bud that when harvest time comes each bud is almost touching each other, and this is with keeping all the leaves on. I think if you were to tightly pack them in, leaving the leaves on still makes sense, they really don't take up any room, they will squeeze past to gather up some light. If they weren't there they couldn't gather up any light at all The problem is with his argument is that people have X amount of plants, with Y amount of space and think stripping off leaves will give them a better yield with no intention of packing in more plants. I have seen people defoliate plants making loads of space between each plant, with the light now shining on the floor instead of the missing leaves. Or light shining on lower smaller less healthy leaves. Some people actually cut higher up leaves off so the lower leaves get some light instead, total madness
It does to me go against all forms of logic, but truthfully if there are hundreds of people proclaiming amazing yields then my naturally inquisitive side wonders if there is something in it lol. From the posts I read GG, I believe he uses a scrog, but removes all fan leaves from the outset and defoliates everything other than bud sites right the way through from veg to harvest. I totally agree that this seems ridiculous to do, just can't figure out why so many people are saying they have achieved way higher yields through doing it.....makes no sense to me. I don't think this is the same link you are thinking about Chronicibus, this guy is very certain that removal of all leaves constantly is a good thing....I will happily post the link, if I'm allowed to do so.
I will post a link here to the one I am reffering to. I think it is ok because they are not competition to the grasscity store. If not I'm sure I will be corrected. Defoliation : High yield technique
I believe there are two reasons why people think it helps. The first one is the fact that when bud starts packing on weight you can do almost anything and a days later there will be more bud. Whatever you do it would be easy to think that your actions are what caused it. The other reason is the fact when you strip leaves off you can physically see more bud. If you don't strip leaves away most of the bud will be hidden away not to be seen until harvest day. I have experimented in the past several times and I am more than satisfied that the more leaves the plants have the higher yield potential they have. Just because a lot of people believe something doesn't make it correct
I stand corrected Chronicibus, it is this same link, my apologies It made for some interesting reading at least, although I'm of the same opinion as you GG, can't see the reasoning behind stripping the plant of what it needs for energy, but to be fair I can't even see how the plants keep growing if they are removing every single leaf throughout it's entire cycle...guess I have a lot to learn lol. Not that I will be learning using this method....hell the first sign of one of my babies fan leaves looking slightly droopy and I will be posting an SOS on GC for emergency assistance, no chance I will be going all Edward Scissorhands on em! lol