Coco kiss scrog, modeled after micks grow

Discussion in 'Coco Coir' started by CalebM, Apr 9, 2020.

  1. hey, I posted this already, but it seemed to get hidden in the reply.
    Any thoughts on this would be awesome:

    Hey bud, yes I’ll be investing a little (or a lot) more into environmental control for the next run. I wish I had more space. Looking at moving into a place with a garage. I have too many hobbies.
    One thing I’ve been reading a lot about is VPD. It’s a new concept for me. I’m looking for a little confirmation of my understanding on a few key points:

    - VPD is a value for the potential of transpiration from leaf to air at a given temp and humidity combo

    -“temp” is more accurately described with leaf surface temp. (I have a nice fluke ir gun for work, so this is easy to get)

    - leaf surface temp should be between 72-80 degrees (regardless of HID or LED lighting)

    - LED grow room ambient temps need to run hotter (80-85) to get the leaf surface temp up due to less Infrared energy than HID lights.

    - I understand that humidity needs to be kept down during flowing for mold reasons, but during veg can I play with the temps to acheive an ideal vpd if I cannot control humidity at the moment? Still waiting on the calcium chloride.

    all the input is appreciated. I don’t want to be one of those “can you grow it for me” people, just want to make sure I’m getting the big picture.

    thanks,

    caleb
     
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  2. Sup bro, a ph drift is fine . Some ppl ph to 5.8 . That’s what I do but that’s just me. It’s been a few weeks since we corrected the issue you were having with ph and your water being way to hard , leading me to believe it is something else , such as environment . However ph can very well cause some funky things so Spanish could very well be right . Even lights being too Close can cause heat stress with twisting and horning . It could also have something to do with the way you pre buffered your coco. . It’s really hard to say for sure . i would make sure to give plenty of run off , even 50% run off. See if that helps because your last set of # ‘s showed very low ppm coming out of one particular pot. i. If that don’t work I would bump up the ppm of that one particular pot with the lowest ppm coming out . Over all they look good. Good luck ~ vape


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  3. Dont need to check the run off constantly mate. As long as youre feeding corectly, which you are, then it wont tell you anything useful. Ph jumps about a bit anyway.
    For veg ph5.7-6.0 then for bloom 6.0-6.5
    Doesnt matter if you give the odd feed thats not quite right but dont make a habbit of it.
    To be fair you could probably get away with just giving ph6 at all times but most of us prefer to give it a bit of swing. Its good to go through the range to be abe to pick up all the little bits of x,y&z.

    Thinking about it now actually ive got a funny feeling ive seen mik say he does feed ph6 all the way. Im not sure if he does anything unusual. You got any amendments in that coco?
     
  4. Bingo mate. You are correct.
    If you cant get the temps right then sort the rh.
    If you cant sort the rh then fix the temps.
    Its nuts when you manage to keep it spot on like. Growth rates go through the roof and when youre in bloom it makes them reak on a different level.
     
  5. no amendments, just coco and perlite (70/30)
     
  6. Sup dude, are your leaves still doing funky things ? I have been thinking about your twisted / horning leaves and should have put it together sooner...Calcium deficiency is the most probable problem that you could have being you didn’t really buffer your coco properly .the coco is robbing a good bit of it from your plants. The first sign of calcium deficiency is a slight twisting of the leaves. Sometimes the edges of the leaves look wavy or “horning “ as a result too. You were given Cal mag at 5ml a gallon and I just didn’t put it together sooner . We also saw this on your leaves of seedlings on the first two nodes In the beginning , and As symptoms progress... we saw brown spots form on the leaves.
    You should try treating them daily with a CalMag foliar spray. Plants can absorb calcium through their leaves and this way the plants can get it without having to compete with the coco for it, especially since we know that you didn’t properly buffer outta the gate. As a foliar application, your plants can handle a full-strength dose of CalMag. However, you can mix a smaller batch if ya wanted....just add enough CalMag so that the EC is 800. pH should be above 6.2. Adding your super moist to the foliar solution is optional. It is best to use a pressure sprayer to apply the foliar as this will deliver a fine mist. you could also use any spray bottle.

    You can play around with temp/ humidity to reach a desired vpd . I touched on it in an earlier post in not so many words in your thread about ppm run off and evaporation . When is hot and or humid plants will transpire through their leaves faster and in return... drink more h20 leaving behind excess ferts and salts showing a high ec in your run off. As long as your within 150 ppm or so you should be good. This is where high Fertigation comes into play... by flushing and constantly keeping the ppm and ph in check by running a fresh batch through several times a day.

    Upon contrary belief… Checking runoff and pH is good practice and will tell you so much about what’s going on in the root zone of your plants and what ya need to do to dial your grow in and achieve the best results possible . ~ vape



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  7. hey bud, oh my god yes they’re still doing funky things... inside the box..

    a while ago (maybe a week) I pulled 3 of the plants out of the box. I didn’t cut em down though, just left them on the patio (Indirect sun) and quit feeding. The pots got feather light. The outside plants stretched out some, leaves flattened out, and are a nice green. Interesting.
    Leads me to believe it’s not a nutrient deficiency.
    Thought that I may be overwatering if the texture of the coco is too fine. I don’t know. (Coco bliss is the brand)

    leads me to also ask what are the other environmental differences between in and out.

    -light intensity.. was at 250w at 26”. I’m skeptical of this as the plants are not reaching out. Leaves are all stacked on each other

    -fans... a lot less air flow out side. Maybe I’m drying them out. Leaves feel dry

    -total air circulation- can I run my exhaust fan too low while trying to control temps?

    - humidity is pretty much the same inside and outside the box.

    so now it’s a process of elimination with my “tester” plants. Watered one of the dry dry pots to runoff today and 550ppm out and 5.8. The plant looks like a plant should. The “inside” pots are running off at around 350ppm and 5.65ph
    Even if I cull this whole thing, I’d still like to figure out why. I think I could avoid a lot more potential problems on the next go, but have to get it figured out first. Seems like is going to take a while to eliminate all of these variables.

    take care and thanks for all the help,
    Caleb

    here’s one of the “outside plants” vs inside
    A515BCE9-E281-49A0-B3DB-7C20E05577BC.jpeg FB36FA86-9C05-42E2-8757-5C6C7BC68E01.jpeg
     
  8. Just FYI, not letting the inside pots dry out. Was watering 2x a day. Now doing 1
     
  9. Sup bro,hmmmm..so the plant outside the box are doing better than the plants inside the box and you didn’t water them? Makes me wanna rethink my guess on a cal mag issue but I’m still sticking with it and I’ll tell ya why... cannabis loves calmag .... under led lighting they can be total junkies...even more than in natural light or even cfl or hid for that matter. it is just a guess but I really believe the problem stems from poor pre buffered coco , The plants outside the box with a better overall environment and under natural sunlight , in Theory , may not require as much cal therefor doing better . If I’m correct this could very well be why your leaves are twisting and your run off is outta wack. I’m not familiar with that brand of coco your using. I use canna bricks after much research although mother’s earth brand has a lower ec outta the gate . I sprouted 4 seeds. 2 blue cheese and 2 key lime kush . 3 day after breaking ground and looking good so far . Feeding with my tap sitting out bubbling until I need it running at 140 ppm and brining it up to 300 with added ferts ( silica, maxi and super moist).love the smell of that super moist lol :). . Have ya thought about transplanting them into properly pre buffered coco? You refer to your grow area as the box, what’s the dimensions ? Anyway keep me posted ~ vape [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


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  10. Nice to see some sprouts!

    I ordered some canna coco bricks just in case I want to start over. I also started the cal mag foliar feeds. I’ll let you know how they respond. The “box” haha is 2.5’x2.5’x5.5’
    I also put one of the nicer looking “outside” plants inside and no cal mag foliar to see if it starts up again. Not to sure about transplanting, they’ve rooted out the bigger pots pretty solidly already. And I’m doubting the chances of pulling nice happy buds off these unhappy plants.


    I was going to order some seeds in case I start over, and wanted to mix strains. Would it be advisable?

    here’s what I’m looking at- trainwreck and “the bling” from humbolt seed company. Both fem hybrids, both “mold resistant” which maybe good for my humidity situation. one is more Sativa, but in theory has a wide growth pattern.

    I was also reading your outdoor thread, it’s like a Stoney huck fin adventure haha
     
  11. Lmao! “Stoner huck fin adventure” that’s freakin funny as hell!
    The box is kinda small for what you have going on in there. 2.5 area ya might just wanna do at the max 2 plants or one big one. One big one might be something to think about outta the gate so ya only gotta worry about one. As ya get better go for two. Just a thought but I feel as if you have a real good understanding of what’s up , ya just got started outta the gate on a bad note that will haunt ya all the way through but the foliar spray should work. Coco is a cal mag robbing thief . Once properly buffered she won’t give ya any prob with your normal routine. You can get a cal deficiency by not feeding as soon as cotyledons emerge. I didn’t start feeding right away and suffer a slight abnormality in a leaf but nothing major. I’m feeding 3 plant at the same ppm and one at a lowered dose as one didn’t germ for me and after starting another she’s 5 days behind .
    Here my numbers to give ya an idea. My tap h20 after sitting out with air stones going is 140 ppm as of now( changes a bit after a good rain . Lowers it) I don’t count my waters ppm so I subtract that after ferts are added leaving me with my target ppm range.

    [​IMG]


    See your grow through the end bro. It ain’t over for ya. I transplanted the beast in my out door journal 2nd week into flower and got 5lb of her lol. They are pretty tuff and it is a learning experience for next time .

    Mold resistant strains are the way to go when dealing with temp and humidity issues. The blue cheese from Barney’s farm I’m growing has those characteristics , pineapple chunk as well. Sugar black rose was one tuff bitch. That’s the beast I grew outside but is indoor outdoor.

    As far as mixing strains I would say it’s ok if ya feel comfortable in monitoring several strains. In your box I would recommend no more than 2 . That won’t be terribly taxing to take care of. Also rinse your run off tray every time you feed a plant to make sure you get accurate numbers .

    After 2 weeks ya should be feeding near 500 ppm. I think your under feeding as par to your last set of numbers. Your run off numbers were way low in one particular pot if my memory serves me correctly.

    Have ya thought about taking clones from your plants? Ya wouldn’t have to start from seed and can shave 3-4 weeks off you grow time. Just a thought. Keep me posted~ vape


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  12. Alright, we’re Looking a little better. I’ve been doing the cal mag foliar and I raised the light some. Down to two plants, which is much easier to monitor. Watering twice a day. Runoff numbers are still about 75 ppm lower than feed- 475 in 400 out.
    we also found a spot to move into (30 days away) where I’ll have a shop room, so planning on setting up a 4x4 tent in there. (With ac and dehumidifier ducted into tent) I think I’ll be able to control the environment Much better. I’ve slowly been accumulating more supply’s for the next run, including canna bricks, hydro halos, 1ltr air pots. Also going to set up automated irrigation (going for the same set up as coco for cannabis) I’ve been dabbling in a strange thing called work, so I’ve had a little less time lately.
    Big thank you to @vaperman for helping me get things sussed out. Very helpful.

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  13.  
  14. [​IMG]

    Pic that didn’t go through of auto drain system


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  15. Not sure what happened but in the quote above the added auto drain pic where it says “see more” there’s a whole thing I usually write that’s not visible unless ya click on it in case ya wanna read it . Maybe valuable info or not , kinda forget what I wrote anyway Lol ~ vape


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  16. Hey bud, how’s it goin’?
    So... I decided to cull the whole thing... it was more of a logistics kinda thing. We are deep in the middle of a move and I had to dismantle the “box”, which is no more. Fuck that thing. I didn’t see a smooth way to transition from one space to the other. I’m going to chalk it up to a huge learning experience.

    But, I’m pretty exited about what I have going on at the new spot. I’ve been working full time again since they started reopening, moving, and setting up a room- so pretty busy, haha.

    here’s the room when I first got there
    441BEEBF-FACD-4B03-B2E6-2151EEE29CA3.jpeg
    And now...

    2F279150-99B7-4BD5-9418-8C2264CE30D8.jpeg 6612B4B4-F082-4183-8CB5-14C2D97D4E39.jpeg

    I got a new variable speed fan w temp and humidity controller, all the stuff for auto feed and drainage(excited to set that one up), Craigslist window AC, and eyes on a 70 pint dehumidifier.
    I built a platform under the 4x4 tent to allow for more water in the reservoir, to assist w drainage, and help the ol’ back out a bit. Plus a little more storage space.

    how’s your grow going?

    -take care
     

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  17. Sup, bro , congrats on your new place. You definitely learned a lot and are better prepared for the next run that’s for sure.
    I can’t even begin to tell ya how freaking Busy I’ve been at work, 12 hour days plus Saturdays. Totally sucks.
    On another note Heat is going to kill me , ....at work ...and in flower under the 650.. The last 2 weeks has been in the mid 80s and controlling heat and humidity in flower will be a prob. Portable air con don’t cut it Plants over all look great except that even with the canna coco I got a bit of a cal mag Deficiency. I’ll be pre-buffering any Coco I use from now on and may even add a little bit into the feed from time to time.
    I can control temp and humidity perfectly in veg regardless of of temp outside no prob. It’s going to be super tuff come flowering though . I may have to come to the fact that I’ll only be able to grow 9 months outta the year unless I invest in a real ac unit . June July and August is out for flowering with out it. I don’t care to much about this run so much, basically getting my room dialed in. But I will see it through to the end.
    .My self draining and auto feed system are complete and work awesome. Here’s some pics.

    My 27 gal placed outside my room

    [​IMG]

    Auto pilot 8 cycle timer to the second. Highly recommended if ya go auto.


    [​IMG]

    Manifold halo system with self draining bucket. I flip the AirPots over and inserted the stakes in the holes in the bottom to do test runs

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Here’s a pic of the girls at about 28 days . I was over cautious in the beginning and under feed them so there a bit behind I guess. Slight twisting of some leaves and just slight strange things. I really believe it’s the coco Not fully buffered. I’m buffering and rinsing anything I use from now on .

    [​IMG]


    Here’s how I’m buffering the transplant coco. 800 ppm of calmag x 2 8hr drenches .i found a good bit of sand after the initial rinse. And the initial ec was pretty high . Not happy about that for so called high quality coco..

    [​IMG]

    Anyway, hope all is well and I’ll be popping in when I get a chance from time to time .take care ~ vape


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  18. Nice, good to know about the canna coco. I’ll definitely do a good rinse and buffer.
    I was able to make some good progress this weekend. Ran water to the building, r/o filter set up(been watering some of the grass with the waste water and it’s tolerating it, so I don’t feel like such a piece of shit) I have the feed and drainage set up. Went with time fountain style aeration. But a couple of concerns:
    I’m using a condensate pump for the drainage that I already had and it’s pretty slow.(like 3gal/hr slow) so the trays flood a bit- the coco won’t sit in it but concerned about humidity spike during fertigation. What kind of pump/ gal/hr are you using? What max quantity of runoff should I expect to have with the 4 air pots and high frequency feeds? Less than the 1-2/day hand feeds I imagine.

    light proofing the tent while keeping enough passive intake area. I put some cloth pots over buckets in the 2 8” intake ports. Pretty light proof, but I turned the fan up to 10 and though the tent was going to implode! Emergency off!
    I think I can run the fan at a 6, but the wall still such in quite a bit. I got the ac infinity 6” ( not so smart it turns out) fan. Wondering if I’m going to have to pony up for the 4” fan that can be linked into the controller for an active intake, or if there is a cheaper solution. Has anyone used this combo of fans with good success/ just a little negative pressure?


    the 10,000 btu window ac kills it. We have some 80+ degree days coming up so I’ll see how she does with that. Dehum also has a lot of effect, but I think the gfci plug is bad. Traded if for a case of beer, so not too disappointed in having to do a little trouble shooting.

    You’re plants look pretty happy to me, but I noticed they’re quite large in their pots compared to some of the other “transplant ready” Plants I’ve seen. Do you recommend letting them fully root the container out before transplanting?
    I ordered some seeds from JBC and well. Great fast service. I got the last key lime Kush haha so curious to see what yours turn into.

    Be well out there

    -Caleb

    BF60B775-7F56-4B2F-AE80-BC109D5A2710.jpeg E8657116-3325-4F9B-B9E9-CA33763E7B82.jpeg 83CC2422-817D-43FF-A720-B63A307C53B5.jpeg 21DA4EC7-0A34-4A07-998E-7E124D16B4C2.jpeg
     

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  19. Sup bro, you gonna be much happier in that bigger area that’s for sure. Looks awesome.
    I use the little giant 1-ABS model shallow pan condensation pump. Automatically turns on when it hits 1-3/4 “ of water in my collection container . Works amazing . It’s like 100 bucks.
    after running a ton of test runs, I have my cycle timer set for 6 feedings. 2 - 27 second intervals , 1 minute apart, 3 times a day over a 12hr period. It works out to be roughly 3 to 3-1/2 gal a day . About 3 liters each plant, each cycle feeding . I’ll only be using my automated system during flower so I can move them into the training room where I prune and lst them. I ditched the scrog nets.... More room to get them closer under my lamp and a lot easier to get at being there’s only one way in. The frequent feedings hasn’t affected my humidity at all during my test runs. Only feed during lights on , humidity sores at lights off naturally so feeding at lights off would make things worse: i also keep my collection container and rez outside my room.
    As far as my plants being to big for the container I definitely don’t recommend it lol I was working 12 hr days for a few weeks and got way behind on my grow. Fortunately I was able to get the halos around the stem of the plants. Definitely didn’t affect the growth because the AirPots root prune but they are far happier in the new final container with the well buffered Coco. Zero deficiencies now.
    The key lime Kush was affected by the poor buffered coco and don’t like a lot of ferts. She is happy at around 600-650ppm so far. My blue cheese suffered a nitrogen deficiency from not enough nitrogen I am now giving them 750 ppm and they seem to be very happy. That’s the problem growing 2 different strains and will make autofeeding an issue. I’ll probably Split it at 700 or so and go with it when I’m running my auto system. Perhaps I’ll run another line and have them on a separate rez. I have 2 outlets on my auto pilot cycle timer that will run 2 pumps Simultaneously. I’ll be hooking it up today as I’ll be away for a couple of days. I like fucking around in my grow room so I prefer to hand water but ya gotta love the Convenience of the auto feed and being able to get away for a weekend

    Here’s a pic of the condensation pump. Fits right in a 5 gal bucket
    IMG_0685.JPG

    Totally exploding with growth. I’ll take cuttings , let them recover a bit, and force them into flower this week.
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    Lst and all tied down.
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    Looking for that nice “candelabra “

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    Take care bro,I’ll touch base next week or so
    ~vape


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  20. 800ppm of calmag mate that's mental. That's twice the total strength I feed my plants at a month lol. I'm in coco/hydro too.
     
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