Cloning troubles

To get a better handle on what's going awry you're going to need to explain your process further. A good step-by-step would help.

There's a lot of things that can cause a clone to kick the bucket. Are you chopping your leaves? Scoring the bottoms? Letting the stem settle in water before gelling and planting? All these things increase your clones rate of survival.

 

Do you cut the bottom of the stem again after you submerge it, but before you put it in the gel? I missed that step the first few times I tried cloning and my clones did the same thing, just lay down after an hour and died /: Apparently even a small air bubble stops their water uptake and cutting them while submerged ensures no air gets in the cut.

 

It's a wives tale. Get yourself a real humidity dome and tray. Dip the cutting in hormone if you like (not really necessary) and insert it into a rockwool cube. Make sure the stem is in good contact with the rockwool by using a chopstick or similar object to pack the wool all around the stem.

I suspect this along with a lack of humidity is the culprit. Clones will droop for the first hour or so, its normal, then they perk back up when they start absorbing water through the stem and leaves.

 

Yes, if any air gets caught in the plants vascular system it can cause an embolism, kind of the same concept as blowing air into someone's IV tube. Very bad things.

 

Once again, That's a wives tale. Plants are not humans, They absorb water, they dont drink it.

 

I never said they drank it. You can swallow air perfectly fine, if you were to put air in your veins it would stop your heart.
The theory is sound, they have a vascular system that uptakes water using a form of suction, as water is exhaled from the leaves, a void is created in the veins and water is pulled from the ground via the roots to fill that void. If air were pulled into the stem, it would disrupt this process. In practice, it improved my success rates with clones from 0% - 50% in dirt. You won't convince me otherwise.
I'm not trying to argue, just saying I had the exact same problem in the past, and this was the solution.
Regardless, what can it hurt?

 

Much respected. Problem here is that when you take a cutting it doesnt keep absorbing water so there is no "Air Bubble". I think you are picturing the stem and vascular system like a drinking straw but it is not the same. The human vascular system is a closed loop, This is why air in a vein is a problem but with plants the vascular system is now closed, it runs from the roots all the way up and out of the leaves via transpiration.

If it seems to help then by all means do it, as you said it cant hurt. I would like to point out that I have never done this cutting under water and I cant remember ever loosing a cutting in 20 years.

 

if the cuttings get droopy and dont recover, the problem is most likely that the humidity is too low. whether its a plastic bag, a plastic dome, a glass terrarium or whatever, its supposed to be (almost) completely sealed (venting once a day is probably recommendable) to ensure something like 95-100% humidity, so as little water as possible evaporated from the cutting's leaves.
of course cuttings will also get droopy if you cook them, so it shouldnt get too hot in the cloning chamber. this also reduces the risk of harmful bacteria n shit.

taking cuttings from cannabis is really fucking easy, all you need for one cutting is one peat puck or a comparable container with peat, perlite, rock wool or something like that, a plastic bag to put it into and of course water and any sharp, clean blade. rooting gels speed up the process and improve success rates, but are not necessary.
just cut a branch off the plant (cut just above a node), trim the larger leaves, cut or pluck off the leaves on the lowest node leaving none of the leaf stems as they would rot, cut again a quarter inch below that node, dip in cloning stuff, stick it into whatever medium you chose and put the humidity dome/bag one it. then give it any cycle of light thats appropriate for veg stage - no strong light required - and leave it the fuck alone. within 3 days to 2 weeks, the cuttings will start rooting.

 

Air embolisms can and do happen in vascular plants. There most certainly is a risk for the plants xylem to suck air after being cut.

 

Here's my thoughts on possible issues:
Humidity is ALL important to new clones....you need a dome of some type to assure this.
You only need a light coating of rooting hormone. (I use powder not gel) and don't add it to your medium.
LIGHTLY scrape the stem above the cut...dont remove the skin. Leave a node right above the 45 deg cut
Spritz the inside of the dome not the plant

 

I stick the cuttings in a cup of water IMMEDIATELY after cutting them. This is probably the reason I have never experienced an air embolism. Looking back, the poster said they added hormone gel to the medium as well as the cutting and that could also be part of the problem. People make it more complicated than it really is, like I said, I have never cut under water in over 20 years and I've not lost a single cutting but if it makes a person fell better then more power to them. For me, it's an unnecessary practice.



-TGL-

 

I agree with you, cutting underwater is a waste of time. Plants rarely do anything in seconds, including reacting to a fresh cut.

 

Im sorry for hijacking this thread. The main point I wanted to make about the whole embolism hypothesis is that at some point you will have to pull it out of the water and stick it in soil or some other medium, again exposing it to air disproving that theory.

As kushy said, plants dont respond in seconds, I can see this being a problem if you take cuttings, lay them down and go eat a samich or smoke a bowl before getting them back in a humid environment but i think the bottom line is not to deprive them of water any longer than you have too.

I love and respect all of my fellow growers, all experiences is considered knowledge gained, even having obtained a masters in hort. science I will always question. Just like the buddha whom said this; "Do not accept anything I say to be the truth just because I have said it, examine it for yourself and then if you find it to be false then be all means do not follow".

 

Well, maybe not so much those activities you mentioned, but I do see it being a problem if you take your time scoring the bottom of the stem.

That'd be something to do underwater if you take your time with it. It's muscle memory to me now, so it doesn't take too long, but for others this can cause some complications.

 

that does not disprove the theory. if you dip a freshly cut stem into water and take it out again, the cut will be sealed by a water droplet.
its true that you dont have to put your cuttings in water if you work fast, but they do suck up air quite quickly. the little tubes inside the stem are extremely thin and the stuff they convey flows through them at quite noticable speed as long as theres water evaporating from the leaves. sucking up air isnt the plant reacting to the cut, its not a reaction at all since it was sucking before you even thought of cutting it.

 

I see what you are saying a bit better now with that first sentence.

Sounds reasonable. I've seen quite a few tutorials that insist that you have to do this or the cutting will in fact develop an embolism and die which leaves me scratching my head in confusion because I never cut under water and have never lost a cutting so I do understand that just because It's never happened to me doesn't mean that it doesn't happen at all.

I just take the cutting from the plant straight to a cup of water. Once I have all of my cuttings in the cup I pull one at a time out and quickly scrape the sides about 1/2" from the bottom and stick it in the RW cube. With sativas I have roots in about 7 days and with indicas its about 12-14 days and I don't mean just showing roots I mean enough roots to plant.

-TGL-

 

Trying my first cloning. Read threads for hours to see how. Cut, protect immediately in water, trim leaves and stem as shown, dip in cloning gel, place in starter pods, place inside large BBQ basting tray with clear plastic lid creating a humidity dome, place tray under T5 flo for 18-6 timing, be careful of direct sun but some is needed. OK: here's the prob. I put these girls in the sun for about 30 minutes and they fried! OK, so no sun on cuttings? what's the deal?