Okay, i am NOT bashing on religion, i think god is fine, but i have problems with the violence caused by religion, the way people worship, and how people think he can heal all problems, i personally am athiest but I think if people are going to worship they should do that by just being a good person, i dont think anyone should have to attend a church and pay money to "be saved from hell", which also upsets me, churches just want money, so they scare you into believing youll go to hell. Anyone else have any thoughts about this?
As a former pastor I can say there are good churches and bad churches. In most evangelical churches, the church members make the Findlay decisions. So the church is nothing more than the people who attend it. Again there are really bad churches and really good ones. Most of the time the money is spent on the ministries of the church, again there are many bad examples. I can say that any denomination or church that says you have you give money to keep from going to hell is flat out ridiculous. I know that this was a previous tenant of Catholicism but heard it was dropped. Not 100% sure on that.
I do like the idea of a church where people gather to discuss beliefs and ideas but when people go to church just to reinforce what they already believe based on nothing then it can lead to very hardheaded people.
I agree with you, I know of some fantastic churches with very good people. Very Christ-like. My only criticism of them is that they often spend their efforts fighting against the wrong things. Perhaps abortion, or removing god from schools, etc... When in fact they'd do much more good by speaking out against the false churches that turn their religion into a disgusting part of society. Many of us outspoken atheists don't oppose people believing in any gods, we oppose the evils that come from organized religion and religious fanaticism. I think groups should police their own so to speak. I would not want to be a part of any group or organization that was connected to these "bad churches." If I remained within such an organization I would put the reform of that organization at the top of the list of things my church would focus on, besides salvation and helping others of course.
Very well stated. I agree with you wholeheartedly, churches are often focused on the wrong things. I am thoroughly against legislating our brand of morality on anyone, I see no instance of it in texts from the early church. Instead it was just the opposite, the church grew out of love and taking care of each other. The church today wants to spread though law and blunt force.
Oh, I think you should dig a little deeper in researching the early church. Christianity has always been spread through law, and with very blunt force. Not exactly in the same way as Islam, but not that different either.
I am talking in reference to the church at the time of acts. I personally do not view this period as part of the catholic movement, and when I say the early church I am talking about a brief timespan.
Yeah some* of those churches can be summed up as, "Send in your cash and you'll be saved." *I wrote 'some' because I know some Christians don't belong to churches.
I disagree; I think that when a church criticizes another, it is using the same tactic used by politicians. I think the best thing a church can do to is to focus completely on being an outreach to the world; actually helping.
But they, all of them, are inherently predisposed to not doing that. They are a business, why do you think the head honchos live in such luxury while preaching such anti-materialist bullshit? They are all opposed because they are all competing for the biggest slice of the pie.
Most pastors I've ever known are pretty modestly middle class to put it frank. Once in a blue moon you can point out an anomaly like Benny Hinn whom parades around in his private lear jet to these miraculous healing crusades..lol There's nothing wrong with the idea or practice of church. It was the backbone of america before family guy. It's proven prayer and faith are very healthy and important parts of human psychology if nothing else. There's a story in the bible where jesus shows up to the temple or something and goes bizerk.. starts over turning tables, kickin ass and taking names. I think the morale was people profiteering in the name of his father or something.. awe full lot of that today but like stated already, plenty of great churches around. Likewise, there is also nothing wrong with tithing. People coming to church have the free will and often quite gladly offer what they can. It's not in the precept this is going to buy a ticket to heaven either. Perhaps you are educated? The sentence structure of OP paragraph suggests otherwise but it is my theory a lot of atheist's are highly intelligent and intellectual folk because God just doesn't make sense without proof. Do you support globalization(sister church in kenya..the church= the school,such minor $ literally astronomically changed the lives of idk how many kenyans), first response volunteer disaster relief(we dispatch people to all these disasters), a group of men in the community dedicated to helping the widow(s)and other single women in need?(I've personally helped several with projects like appliance electrical diagnosis, light construction, tree removal..), The church I more often than not never attend.. does all this great stuff. I can't remember the last time i showed up for a service but every tuesday night they open the doors to the public for a free of cost dinner...with nothing more than a donation bucket... and imagine this... some how, funds in that account never run dry no matter how many people skip putting a dollar or two in the basket.. There's nothing special about our church. We are just one of thousands. Ya know at the mens meeting the other night we were discussing this very thing where would America be without churchs? You know like 90% of the people showing up to donate time after a disaster like Katrina or the gulf oil spill were contracted through a church..
Your entire post only goes to show that churches prey on the misery of others in order to further their own means. You all funnel this notion of 'goodness' and 'charity' and 'philanthropy' into the endless sewer of religion. Would you do the same if you were an atheist? Probably not, and I've heard just about every (not all, but at least 90% of them) christian say the same thing. Religion affords them an excuse to feel good about themselves that they would otherwise not acheive. All those 'charities' you listed would exist despite, in fact, thrive, without religion - via a realisation of the worth of humanistic philanthropy, not dependant upon the supposed evential judgement of some supernatural father figure. Religion gives people a reason to live, fight on, struggle, survive - great! so do drugs and sex and selfishness. It's all about implementation - and religion is guilty as can be.
As previously mentioned, there good and bad. When hypothetically talking about church or any of its affiliated topics we can't just use general presuppositions and stereotypes; the convo would be over before it started.
Well the title of the thread is pretty specific and vague at the same time lol. But I dislike pretty much all churches equally. I don't like the concept.
The sale of indulgences doesn't exist in the Catholic church anymore, that was introduced by Pope Leo during the 1500s I believe and removed after the Reformation. Although yeah it may seem that they are attempting to benifit them self by taking money, but it also goes towards costs, charity, sister churches, church events, and many good things. I've never been to a 'bad' church , but some priests in my community (never met them) has blown thousands in gambling debts
I think that the Catholic church is a very poor example of a good church. There may be good individual churches under the banner of Catholicism, the general ignorance and historical mistakes of the Catholic Church are to large to ignore.