Christians- I have a question for you

Discussion in 'Religion, Beliefs and Spirituality' started by breatheeasy, Mar 17, 2012.

  1. I've been raised in a christian home and have been baptized as a kid but now question these beliefs and no longer consider myself Christian. What happened to the souls before Christ and the bible. Did they automatically go to hell because the option to go to heaven was not made available to them yet? Would god truly punish someone even though they had no way of knowing the "truth". What about the people that live in third world countries that will never hear the first word of Jesus or the bible. Do you truly believe God would bring these people to life knowing they will never hear of him and then when they die send them to hell for it?
  2. ...I got a question too! ...why in the fuck does Adam and Eve have belly buttons in all your paintings/pictures?
  3. In my opinion... Jesus probably wasn't the first being to die for our sins, nor will he be the last.

    For every action there is an equal an opposite reaction, someone has to pay for it. It's all so fluid.

    Existence is cyclical, don't believe me? Look at the orbits of the planets, the cycles of the seasons, the orbit of atoms around the nucleus, of blood throughout our bodies, of water around the earth. Expansion, contraction. Yin, yang.

    Reincarnation. Incarnation. What in tarnation.

  4. i like the point you made about everything being a cycle. I've never really thought about things like that before. It does create some interesting thoughts on reincarnation.
  5. Look into Buddhism/Taoism man, seriously.

    I would recommend the Bhagavad-Gita for starters (a Hindu "bible").

    I too was raised in a strong Christian household and after branching out into other religions I feel I have a much more balanced perception on life. I was also atheist for a period of time but due to my life experiences I was forced to believe that some form of God's existence is undeniable.

    I also believe that this is what the "you shall have no doubt" line you referred to in your other post was referencing, the point where you no longer have any doubt of God- a higher spiritual force (not necessarily Jesus, in my opinion).

    I don't want to "lead you astray" though, all you can do is go with what feels right in your heart of hearts. Anything less is self-deception, and that's the worst kind of deception there is.

    Good luck on your journey my friend, it will be a long and arduous one, but it will one day be over... for a time. :smoke:
  6. There was no concept of hell before Paul got ahold of the reigns. The Jews believed in an afterlife in much the same way that the Greeks did. Theirs wasn't a heaven and hell, there's was a next life, still lived from day to day. How that life turned out was somewhat based on what type of person you were during your lifetime. A good, honest, just person had a good next life, and a dishonest, crooked, manipulator had a rough next life.

    This is the world Jesus lived in. What started out as communal atonement with the beginnings of Yom Kippur later became personal, individual atonement, which is why the nation was ripe for Jesus' message.

    So as far as hell before Jesus, it wasn't even the same concept. Paul took the Roman concepts of extreme punishment and such and mixed them with the teachings of Jesus. Because I do not believe the Bible to be inerrant (without flaw) or divinely dictated, I have no problem saying that I adhere to the idea that Jesus was raised to believe and, from my understanding of his teachings, believed until he died.
  7. #7 breatheeasy, Mar 17, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2012
    no disrespect, but this doesn't answer my question. If I'm right and your in christian belief. These greeks and jews that lived and died before jesus was born were people who had souls. Those souls had to go somewhere? And god said the only way was through jesus. Which is fair? But did god apply special rules for these people for not knowing jesus yet since he wasn't born or did he send them to hell?
    Also what about the people that are alive now like the indigenuous tribes that don't even know the white man exists. (I will look for an awesome video of a tribe meeting us and our technology for the first time and post it). see many people like that will never even hear about jesus. ever. They will live and die here on earth without hearing Jesus's name nor the bible. So what happens to them. In the christian faith god is known to have a hand in everyone's lives, creating them and all. So your telling me God creates humans knowing they will never hear his word or name and then send them to hell for it?
  8. [ame=] - Tribe meets white man for the first time[/ame]

  9. I should have expounded a bit more on my beliefs. My view is that Jesus came to save his people from themselves, and in turn saved the world. Moreover, that salvation is not the "hope I'm good on judgement day" brand that we are used to, rather it is the power to bring the kingdom of God the now.

    So, to answer your question (I hope), I do not believe that salvation and eternal life are intrinsically linked. I think salvation (actively working to manifest the kingdom of God) gives one a better chance at a good afterlife, but people who are not consciously acting toward kingdom purposes also have a good chance at a good afterlife.

    And by "manifest the kingdom" and "bring the kingdom here" I mean they are good. Truly good. Not people who do good things because it is the social norm, but people who do good because goodness is in them.
  10. #10 breatheeasy, Mar 17, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2012
    i'm good with that answer. I have a deep history with Christianity. Two years of my schooling come from a christian university. I was in church every Sunday as a kid. Most of my childhood memories come from something involved with church. It taught a lot of good things. Sure. Would I go back and change it. probably not. I've not been to church in a few years. Only on holidays. Actually I'll probably make sure my kids one day are involved in church. I believe its a good way to raise a family. But after spending a good amount of time doing deep thinking about my beliefs I came to the realization that I could not logically say to myself that I believed wholeheartedly in Christianity so to say. I believe in a god, but am not sure what all he entails.

    I believe that the bible is great literature and that a lot of it are great stories to know. I've not read the whole Koran but I look at it in the same fashion. There isn't one book. It's about living and doing right not playing by a certain set of rules like kneel and pray 5 times a day. Will praying 5 times a day and abiding by all of Muslim rules make you a better person? Sure. thats the point of these religions is to make you more aware of what you do right and wrong but I don't believe it's the only way to "heaven"
  11. #11 breatheeasy, Mar 17, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2012
    it just now hit me why I like joel osteen's sermons so much. I can't stand the typicall evangelical sermons that come from most church's every Sunday.

    My great grandmother is dying and we had her preacher come and give the family a sermon with her there at her house on her hospital bed. Probably the last place she will lay. I've been to his church many times before because that's what the family does on holidays. I have no problem with it. Every Sunday I've been it's the same exact sermon with different scriptures. How you need to come find Jesus and the whole bit. Keep in mind this isn't a big group of people he's preaching to here. About 40 total, thats including my extended family when we go on holidays.

    So we're heading to my great grandmothers house for probably her last sermon she'll ever hear. I'm thinking, surely this guy is going to have something different to say then the typical bit. He gets started and it's the same ol routine. How to come to know jesus. And the people there are just family and a few friends. I couldn't believe it. I'm not mad. He's very nice for doing what he did and am very thankful for it because it gave her one of her few last smiles, us all just being there in church with her at her house. But I just couldn't believe he chose that sermon and not something uplifting.

    Osteen is about self improvement and uses the bible just as a reference and doesn't beat you over the head with it.
  12. Who can't benefit from something like this?

    [ame=]JOEL OSTEEN Espect Good Things #373 - YouTube[/ame]

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