Christianity, and Free Will?

So, if I do something bad it's not my fault? Can't argue with the will of God, right?

 

could jesus microwave a burrito so hot that he himself could not eat it?

 

According to most Christian religion you make all your life choices before you're even born, therefore no blaming god. Religion always has its loopholes so it can't be cornered.

 

Good questions to have, and I can definitely see your point. It's like... God knows all. He's seen the beginning from the end, and vice-versa. He creates each person, knowing ahead of time all the choices they will make during the course of their life... Or does He? There's instances throughout Scripture where God apparently changes His mind... There was a king who was on his death bed, who had a prophet petition the Lord for another chance, so God gave him 10 or 15 more years (I forget which)... There are other similar instances as well.

I look at it like this... Right now I have the choice to stay here and keep typing this, or to go and roll a blunt for the wakey. God already knows what choice I'm going to make, but I don't. I still feel that it's my choice. Just as it's my choice whether or not I want to live a good life or a bad life. God may know ahead of time which choices I'm going to make, but that doesn't mean He interferes with those choices.

Free will is simply this: It's a choice God made to not interfere with OUR decisions. If want to live an evil life, He allows us to do so. If we want to live a good life, He allows us to do that. It's simply our freedom to choose good or evil. He may already know which path we will choose, but that doesn't mean it's still not our choice. Is it not YOUR decision to be kind to others? Or likewise, is it not YOUR decision to be a dick? Everything we do in our lives is determined by US. God doesn't control our decisions, He just knows beforehand what they will be. See the difference?

 

It is not about God making a mistake though. There are more places in the Bible where one thing was going to happen, but because some righteous prophet or person argued with God about it, God changed his mind. Now, we can sit here and think God just flip flopped on the issue but, I would say that God simply gave a test. Would the righteous person stick up for what is righteous even in the face of his God? As a Christian we are told to behave a certain way, to love people the same way we love ourselves. Let us take a look at the Revelations in the Bible, according to the that book things are going to get pretty bad for a good number of people. While that is going on, is a Christian (even though the events that are happening are the will of God) supposed to aid God in punishing the wicked, or is the Christian supposed to aid those who are suffering? It is the latter of the two, so even though it would be the will of God for Revelations to happen, does not mean it would be the will of God for us to 'cause harm to people. The righteous should do righteous things, no matter what is going on. The stories of God having his mind set to do one thing and a righteous person arguing with him until he changes his mind, are most likely, stories designed to teach us that we are to always do good. Vengeance is mine, saith the LORD.

We have free will, as Cottons said, God knows about the choices we will make, but beyond that God knows how everything will turn out if everyone made different choices as well. If I knew what the winning lottery numbers would be on Wednesday, but told no one and bought no ticket and you came along and bought the winning ticket, which is something I also knew you would do... Did I infringe upon your free will or in anyway shape or form make your choice for you simply because I knew what was going to happen? Of course I did not. You still made your choice, and you could have made many others. The only way to negate free will, is if all-knowing God were to make your choices for you. If God simply tried to influence decisions, that would still not negate free will, as it would still be your choice to listen to the influence or not.

Really? This is the first I have ever heard of that. Pretty interesting. Do you know what denominations believe this, or why it is taught? Does anyone?

 

The guy may have known that starting the fire would kill the family - but did that take away the family's free will to stay home that night? What if they would have made a spur decision to go out to dinner instead? Or to visit a relative they haven't seen for a while? They would not have died in said fire, and thus would not have been "destined" to do so.

 

Think of it like this: you choose your fate. Things cannot happen alternatively; there is only one reality. You choose, that decision sticks forever. Cottons said it nicely: God knows what you will choose.

 

If you believe in god and believe he has a plan for everything than you cant believe in free will because everything in your life is already planned out.

If you view the world in a more realistic way you will notice you dont have much free will either. Though we are conscious beings we are not 100% conscious. We still do many things in our lives unconsciously and instinctively. If you take Freud's advice the best way to have the most control over your conscious life is learn to read your dreams, which is all your unconscious thoughts, when you get a grasp of that, you can learn to take care of the problems you are not aware of in your conscious life. But, even then no one has 100% free will, whether it is god controling it, or your basic instincts (survival, sex, hunger, etc.) taking over.

 

The fact that we are a live may be paradoxical, but the way our brains work has been studied for hundreds of years and there is tons of information and FACTS on why we function the way we do. Whether you want to be ignorant and not learn about it is up to you. Our brains may be very complex but we have a very firm grasp on how our bodies work, as much as you may want to believe it god doesnt control everything, and if he does, he does it in an orderley fasion so that we can atleast understand how WE function.

 

As far as destiny goes, there is no such thing as destiny, there is no such thing as a pre determined future, no one has a pre determined future, there are only the decisions you make. The only thing pre determined is that you cannot change the decision you make. You may be able to fix it in the future but you cannot go back and fix it. You may have passed a yellow light and at the next intersection pass through a green light and have anothe person pass a red light and kill you, but that is not gods work, that is not destiny, if you would have CHOSEN to stop at that yellow light, you would have made it to the next intersection and stopped at the red light perfectly safe. But that is how it works, whether it is your consicious or unconcious mind that makes the decision you just have to deal with the consequences and realize you cannot control the things you have no control over.

 

So I don't believe in god but I don't believe in free will either. I think what we experience as consciousness and free will is really just the playing out of particles in chemistry.

And I don't like it when people treat this opinion as something not special or demeaning. The fact that we can go from hydrogen to human beings to me in 15 billion years if fucking ridiculous. That's one of the coolest things ever, that given time nothing can form something incredible. It's like letting paint drip onto a canvas and getting the mona lisa. Or the monkeys on typewriter thing.

The cool thing is that these events aren't random. Chlorine doesn't bond to sodium becuase of chance, it does so, in short, because it works better that way. Which is essentially what we do, we do things because it makes thing work or work better. We are really just a really advanced complicated form chemical bonding.

What really matters is it doesn't matter if we have free will or not, people do what they do because they want something for themselves, having free will or not doesn't affect that.

 

If there is an omniscient and all-powerful being than there cannot be free-will.
It simply goes against the meaning of free-will if what you are going to do is already mapped out. There is no further discussion.

The fact that people believe in a God and don't realize the ramifications of what him existing would be is scary.

It would be a dictatorship that doesn't even end when you die.

 

The only time free will could be an issue is if the choices in question are a matter of going with or against the will of God. The first choice would be whether to allow God into a situation or not. Once we accept God into the situations the answers can and will be found in his love. When we live to fulfill his will, free will is a matter of who we are living for.

 

Sounds like the doctrine of "Predestination..."

Isa 45:7 - I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

I don't have a problem with it. I believe in predestination. I believe God chooses some for salvation and not others.

The Gordian knot of theology is us being held accountable for our sins yet have a God that pre-determines all things.

Romans chapter 9 pretty much summed this up for me a long time ago. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

I think alot of so called Christians have it wrong when they say "I choose God..." The Bible clearly states in numerous passages that God does the choosing, which makes Him a sovereign, omnipotent - divine being. This may be harsh for some, but its just a matter of thought, objective study, and reasoning.