A hologram is produced when a single laser light is split into two separate beams. The first beam is bounced off the object to be photographed. Then the second beam is allowed to collide with the reflection of the first. When this happens they create an interference pattern which is then recored on a piece of film. If a piece of holographic film containing the image(an apple), is cut in half and illuminated by a laser, each half will still be found to contain the entire image of the apple. Even if the halves are divided again and then again, an entire apple can be reconstructed from each small portion of the film. So a very small fragment of the holographic film, contains all of the information recorded in the whole. Now some research on the brain, and how it has qualities similar to that of a hologram: In 1946 Pribram went to work with a neuropsychologist Karl Lashley at the Yerkes Laboratory of Primate Biology and was able to witness the fruits of Lashley's labors(who spent over 30 yrs searching for the elusive mechanisms responsible for memory). Lashley trained rats to perform a variety of tasks, such as run a maze. He would then surgically remove various parts of the rats brains and retested them. He was trying to remove the part of the brain where the memory of the maze running was contained. He found that no matter what portion he removed, the rats were still able to run the maze (although their motor skills were quite fucked up). This showed that the memories weren't stored in specific locations in the brain, but rather distributed throughout it. Indiana University Biologist Paul Pietsch was skeptical of Lashley's and Pribrims results, so he conducted his own experiments to prove them wrong. His test subjects were salamanders b/c from previous studies, he found that he could remove their brain w/out killing it and once he replaced it, the salamander's behavior would return to normal. Pietsch claimed that if a salamanders feeding behavior is not confined to any specific location in the brain, then it shouldn't matter how its brain is positioned in its head. And if it did matter, then it would show that memories aren't distributed but rather, localized in the brain. So Pietsch conducted over 700 operations on the brain of the salamanders, where he flipped, shuffled, subtracted, etc the brain of the salamanders. But as soon as the salamander recovered, it resumed normal feeding. Vision may also be holographic. Lashley also discovered that the visual centers were surprisingly resistant to surgical excision. He found that after removing as much as 90% of a rat's visual cortex, it could still perform tasks requiring complex visual skills. Pribram conducted similar research, but he was able to remove as much as 98% of a cat's optic nerves w/out seriously impairing it's ability to perform complex visual tasks. Jean B. J. Fourier developed a mathematical way of converting any pattern, no matter how complex, into a language of simple waves. He also showed how these wave forms could be converted back into the original pattern. These equations he developed to convert images into wave forms and back again are known as Fourier Transforms. Research in the 1960s had shown that each brain cell in the visual cortex is geared to respond to a different pattern - some brain cells fire when they eyes see a horizontal line, others fire when the eyes see a vertical line, and so on. But in 1979 Berkeley neurophysiologists Russell and Karen DeValois did tests to show that the visual system worked as a kind of frequency analyzer. They used Fourier's equations to convert plaid and checkerboard patterns into simple wave forms. Then they tested to see how the brain cells in the visual cortex responded to these new wave-form images. What they found was that the brain cells responded not to the original patterns, but to the Fourier translations of the patterns. This showed that the brain was using Fourier mathematics to convert visual images into the Fourier language of wave forms. These are just some research examples presented in the book. I'll have to get back and post more info on how the universe is like a hologram sometime tomorrow night. --------------- Now about chakras and astral projection. I cannot physically prove that chakras or astral projection is real to you. But if thousands of thousands of people can feel their energy(chakras) in the exact locations found on page 1, is this not evidence enough to show that is real? I mean, there has been several people on here who has stated that they can feel them. Are they just 'playing' along with me? Or do they actually feel them? Lets take for example lucid dreaming. Lets say that I have a lucid dream and I tell you about it. You might not believe me, and ask me to prove it to you. How could I possible prove to you that I had a lucid dream? I can't! I can tell you how to try and have a lucid dream, and give you pointers, but I can not physically show you empirical evidence that I had a lucid dream. The only way you can know that lucid dreaming is real is to **cough cough** have a lucid dream. The same applies to the chakras and astral projection. Rasta, I understand that you want hard evidence but just b/c you haven't experienced these things doesn't mean it's fake. There are many people out there who knows these things to be real. How can you deny these personal experiences even though they can feel their energy in the same spots or can astral project following the same steps? You don't have to believe it, but plz don't be close minded about it and say that it is fake, when there are many people out there (and several in this thread), who can feel their energy and astral project. I dont mean to sound like a dick when I say this, but what evidence do you have to prove that it is fake?
anyone familiar with the teachings of OSHO basically an absolute truth that anyone can fully wrap their brain around once you become familiar with the simple principles http://youtube.com/watch?v=otGQqO2TYMI worth watching, funny but this is one fucking enlightened sentient being
Evidence that it is in any way connected to what we usually call the real world. you know, cause and effect. Objectivity. I got so much [censored] for these ideas that I think I should stop now before someone figures out it's a good idea to ban my ass But just to leave off on a good note; think any of this, I'll call it what it is, bullshit, got anything going for it, go ahead. James Randi got 1 million US dollars just waiting in an escrow account for the first that can prove any such notion of chakras, astral projection and all that other flimflam. 1.000.000 $, a lot of money, yet no-one's been able to pick it up yet. Wonder why... edit: meditation is another concept alltogether. Personally I prefer doing it lying down, with a pillow and a blanket. I believe snoozing is a good description. Relaxing too
It wasn't a loaded question, I'm on your side. I'm not a believer in much of what's being said here, I'm just trying to ascertain what exactly you're against in meditation itself, not the rest of it. I'm a meditator, but there is much I don't buy. Gooood post though...LOL!... No problem with that. This is why I'm not joining in so much with any of the above, even though I am a meditator, there are so many wrong misconceptions about it that it's hard for anyone to get past the many new age suppositions they've been fed about it, it's nobody's fault. I'm all for the method you describe above, there's not much better MelT
What makes you think that this isn't part of the real world? There has been several in this thread, that has said that they have felt the chakras, and even someone as said they astral projected. What do you have to say about that? Plus there are thousands of thousands of people who knows chakras and astral projection to be real. So if some people all around the world can feel their energy in the same locations, is this not some proof that it is real? Valerie Hunt, a phsical therapist and professor of kinesiology at UCLA, has done experimental test to confirm that charkas exist. Hunt used an electromyogram (EMG) to detect electrical activity throughout the body. The normal frequency range of the electrical activity in the brain is between 0-100 cycles per second (cps), with most of the activity between 0-30 cps. Muscle frequency goes up ot about 225 cps, and the heart goes up to about 250 cps. Hunt discovered that the electrodes of the EMG could pick up another field of energy radiating from the body, that ranged from 100-1600 cps and sometimes even much higher. Instead of emanating from the brain, heart, or muscles, the field was the strongest in the areas of the body associated with the chakras. Hunt even tested 1 person who's frequencies was as high as 200,000 cps in their energy field. Like how do you think they would test chakras or astral projection? I'm afraid that showing a higher range of electrical frequency in the chakra areas wouldn't be enough to win that challenge. A former member of the Committee of the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal, Dennis Rawlins resigned after finding evidence that the committee skewed results to fit their agenda. http://cura.free.fr/xv/14starbb.html Randi can only accept who he wants, and can even ignore the evidence of the tests performed. http://www.survivalafterdeath.org/articles/keen/randi.htm ------------ I mentioned this earlier, but all the skeptics seem to ignore it: Here is an India Yogi, who went into this deep state of meditation (or astral projection), and stayed under water for 4 days, while in this state. There were thousands of people there watching all of this, and it was even reported by CNN World News. http://indiatravelogue.com/pass/spec/refl7.html And doesn't it seem ignorant to think that just b/c something hasn't happened to you, then it must be fake? Take the lucid dream example that I used earlier. How can one show proof of a lucid dream being real? No one can. But if I have a lucid dream, and thousands else where has a lucid dream, is this not proof alone that lucid dreaming can happen, when the MAJORITY of people can't do it? The same applies to astral projection and chakras.
Are you saying that my views of meditation are wrong? I assume you say this b/c I see meditation and astral projection to be closely related to each other, and for the sake of simplicity I have been somewhat using the term meditation and astral projection interchangeably. If my assumption is wrong, then sorry. In your first post you seem to advocate chakras, but reject astral projection. I'm curious to what got you involved w/ chakras, martial arts(some study and use chakras), religion, or what? Since you meditate and use your chakras, would you mind trying out astral projection for us? I find that I can astral project by going on 'another level' of meditation, if you will. Try and clear all of your thoughts and just focus on your breathing. Now try and focus on one of your chakra points (lets say your 3rd eye location), while keeping your mind clear of thoughts. Keep focusing on this spinning vortex of energy, and for me it will eventually carry out over my whole body. Just keep concentrating on it. This is what would usually happens next **to me**, I will hear a loud pitch in my ear, and it will get louder and louder, until I break through and astral project. Now there are several ways to astral project, but this has been the way I've done it. If you just either concentrate on the high pitch sound, or your energy, you should 'break through'. But it might take you several tries, but either way you should atleast get a feel of something about to happen. And for some people, they get excited or scared and lose their concentration. But hopefully you will give this a try.
Not at all, great questions - though I wasn't actually addressing you directly, I'm talking to Zylark. But, if you want me to talk about it: Astral projection and meditation aren't closely related and never have been in Buddhism or Hinduism. They're two completely different things. The closest you're going to get in them is the idea of consciousnes transference at death in Tibetan Buddhism. There may well be other shaman traditions who do use it, but...if they're closely related then there would be a mention of it one Buddhist form or another. Meditation comes in three 'levels' that are concerned with calming the mind, recognising the nature of mind, and finally recognising and dwelling in the true nature of reality. Astral projection is variously an attempt to travel to other locations via a supposed spiritual plane, so they're quite different. I don't know of any meditators who would see them as interchangable terms for the same thing. QUOTE In your first post you seem to advocate chakras, but reject astral projection. I'm curious to what got you involved w/ chakras, martial arts(some study and use chakras), religion, or what? I advocate chakras, (I've also written a book whcih covers aspects of their use) as I can get what are to me valid responses from them, which aid some aspects of meditation. However, I and many others within meditation don't buy into them as what they're described as in today's New Age literature. They've gone to far off the deep end with supposition. Using chakras is an important middle-stage practice within Vajrayana, but above and below that they don't make too mcuh of an appearance. Hinduism has more on them though, but again, not as they're portrayed nowadays. I got involved with them after not beleiving they worked on some level, but found that they worked for me. I was involved in martial arts for years and heard some awful bullshit about their use that caused me to work with them for a fewyears. Before I became a buddhist I used them in about 50% of my meditation - but I still do not agree with their description in classical terms, and certainly not in modern New Age terms One of the problems is the impression amongst new meditators that they're trying to go somewhere and reach an external spiritual plane (hence astral travel)- but any experienced meditator will tell you that that's in fact the opposite of what youre trying to do. >>>Since you meditate and use your chakras, would you mind trying out astral projection for us? I tried for years. I've had two OBE's as a child, but got nothing at all out of astral projection. If others have been more succesful great, but personally I found it to be much self-delusion. I can't think of anyone within Buddhism who actively believes in it as such, but I'm sure there must be some somewhere. The point is that it isn't linked to meditation and something that all meditators know about or do. QUOTE: I find that I can astral project by going on 'another level' of meditation, if you will. Try and clear all of your thoughts and just focus on your breathing. Now try and focus on one of your chakra points (lets say your 3rd eye location), while keeping your mind clear of thoughts. [/quote] I've used chakras in various ways, including something very like the 'third eye' practice you say above (as it has a similar form with a different aim in Mahamudra which I practised for a few years) but have never heard of it as being connected with astral projection - or known anyoe else who has done so using it? If you have, again, I can only wish you well, but it has no reported effect of the kind you mention that I've heard of within the traditions. Who knows, it might well work, but I don'thave any belief in it personally, and I don't see a belief in it reflected in the traditions I know about. You also have to draw a very thick line between doing Astral projection and thinking that it's going to get you any closer to enlightenment, if that's your aim. Good post though... MelT
I've been trying to help by seeing if I can find any real links to AP in other traditions that aren't shamanistic (there has to be a lot there, although what they do isn't meditation), as Tibetan buddhism isn't concerned with moving into a 'spiritual plane'. as that's in complete opposition to our idea of consciousness and methods of reaching enlightenment. The closest you're ever gong to find to it is 'Dream Yoga', which is primarily concerned with lucid dreaming - but with the intent of carrying your understanding of reality into the dream state so that you can continue to practice whilst asleep. In Hinduism the Siddhis are a supposed result of realistion and, like other siddhis, are not actively sought (unless you're someone on the edges of mainstream Hinduism), as to do so would mean that you've surrendered to the ego. If you gain them as a matter of course, then that's acceptable. But it's not actually a part of mainstream meditation in Hinduism or Buddhism. QUOTE: SIDDHIS: Yogic supernatural powers arising spontaneously as the result of spiritual progress. Siddhis are to be ignored, not cultivated. There are supposedly ten supernatural powers or sankhya available to the developed yogi, but two of them do not occur on this plane and only the 8th can be sought deliberately by the will: siddhi: (Sanskrit) "Power, accomplishment; perfection." Extraordinary powers of the soul, developed through consistent meditation and deliberate, grueling, often uncomfortable tapas, or awakened naturally through spiritual maturity and yogic sadhana. Through the repeated experience of Self Realization, siddhis naturally unfold according to the needs of the individual. Before Self Realization, the use or development of siddhis is among the greatest obstacles on the path because it cultivates ahamkara, I-ness, and militates against the attainment of prapatti, complete submission to the will of God, Gods and guru. Six siddhis in particular are considered primary obstacles to samadhi: clairvoyance (adarsha siddhi or divya siddhi) clairaudience (shravana siddhi or divyashravana) divination (pratibha siddhi), super-feeling (vedana siddhi) super-taste (asvadana siddhi), supersmell (varta siddhi). The eight classical siddhis are: 1) anima: to be as small as an atom; 2) mahima: to become infinitely large; 3) laghima: super-lightness, levitation; 4) prapti: pervasiveness, extension, to be anywhere at will; 5) prakamya: fulfillment of desires; 6) vashitva: control of natural forces; 7) ishititva: supremacy over nature; 8) kama-avasayitva: complete satisfaction. The supreme siddhi (parasiddhi) is realization of the Self, Parasiva. As you'll see above, although the Siddhis are listed, they aren't actively sought, and really the only place that you can find any actual references to practice of them is in parts of Hatha yoga - but even there they bear no relation to Astral projection as it's suggested in modern literature. MelT
bump* ive done some meditation in the last couple of months and experienced certain feelings, a tingling vibration almost in chakras i concentrated on. astral projection is another story, ive hardly been successful in leaving my body let alone enter another dimensional plane/state of consiousness.
I would love to astral project. ElectricJW please keep posting, your posts are enlightening. And to all those who just won't accept this, just don't even open the thread, it's as simple as that.
thanks guys this is a awesome thread and for those of us who seem not to fully grasp the concept it to me is kind of an all or nothing think, where u either get it or u dont, and when u dont it may sound nutty, but when we get it we really GET it if you catch my drift, peace
i have been trying to work with my chakras recently but i never knew about astral projection, im gonna try some things ewith that too. thanks for the info this is a great post
Yet there is no evidence, but what about all these electrical machines that hospitals use to pick up our tiny electrical currents? EEG, EKGs, I'm sure you heard of these. All humans, all animals give off energy, hell even all particles give off energy. String theory says at the most basic, everything says we consist of vibrating strings....but what are the strings vibrating with..........still confused??............energy!!! another example.......hammer head sharks can pick up the slightest electrical waves to detect its prey hidden under the sea bottom. What more proof do you want to show you that we are all electrical powered beings?