high all! dragoon here, havent been round as much as i used too.. my plans inadvertently got f*cked around with and now im growing at a friends house, under better conditions IMHO... ive been researching and reading throughout all this time though.. (i noticed theres no *advanced growing/experiments* forum on here.. so i figured id post this in here... any mods, if you see a better place plz move it! ) now, i dont know about how much experience or knowledge anyone on heres had with CO2 supp but if i could get any info on my proposed setup itd be appreciated!! thx all! SORRY FOR THE LONG POSTS BUT I COULDNT FIND MUCH ON HERE ABOUT CO2 SUPPLEMENTATION SO I FIGURED ID JUST ADD SOME !! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- i was hoping i could utilize this advanced technique using the following methods: there will be one or more CO2 "production centers". These will be made using either the yeast and sugarwater method, or the vinegar and limestone/marble chips method. (BTW: do you suggest a specific one? or have found one works better than the other?? thx for your comments/suggestions on this!) these "production centers" would be entirely closed in to the outside environment except for plastic tubing which would run through the length of the garden with branches off to each of the individual plants canopies. Probably near the top of the plant, as CO2 is heavier than air and would drop the height of the plant before being dissapated into the air. i am cultivating 9 feminized mazar plants from seed in my growroom, which is approx 3ft by 3.5ft by 5ft, and is vented by active in and output fans(the exhaust fan is a 50CFM low sone fan connected to a homemade carbon scrubber, and the input fan is a relatively lower CFM computer fan) in anyones educated and cultivation inclined opinion, would this setup have a direct effect on the growthrate and/or yields of the plants? also, if anybody has any suggesions for the betterment of this plan, or just plain comments/suggestions, please dont hesitate to reply with them! again, let me say thank you for your help everyone, its much appreciated! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Items Required: * 10lb. white sugar * 5 gallon clean bucket W/lid * 4 1/2 gallons of water * A piece of toast browned and hard * A table spoon of dry active yeast (for baking bread) First boil the water, (this will ensure clean water) remove from the heat and add the sugar. Stir until sugar dissolves. Let cool until water is room temperature (if you don't let it cool down it won't work). After the sugar water has cooled, float the piece of toast on top of the water. Now, empty the tablespoon of yeast over the toast. After a few days, the yeast will take over the toast and start making bubbles (CO2) in the bucket. After a week, the amount of bubbling (CO2) will increase. Keep the lid airtight on the bucket. CO2 travels up the dispersion tubing, and due to it being heavier than air, falls directly onto your plants. Timing your exhaust, is essential in maintaining an effective level of CO2. Editors Note: Unfortunately the author of this contribution has not been able to test the CO2 levels produced using his method. Personally, I would use a CO2 analysis kit to help manage (exhaust timing etc), and maintain, an optimum level of around 1500PPM.
A Co2 generator can be made from anything that burns propane or natural gas. Lanterns, heaters, stoves, barbecues, house furnaces, or even water heaters and cloths dryers. Here I will tell you the numbers needed to plan a homemade system from a propane burning source. A clean burning propane appliance will not create dangerous amounts of carbon monoxide so I suggest making your generator out of something made for indoors that dose not require exhausting. But always use a carbon monoxide alarm, it will only add 5-20 dollars to the total cost. If you cycle your fans off and off, you will have to re-supplement after every vent cycle to keep proper levels of Co2 at all times. It is important that every vent cycle is enough to totaly recycle fresh air, or you will still have Co2 left over after you vent. I suggest turning the air in your grow space twice every vent cycle. In other words, if you have a 200 cubic foot grow space you will need to run a 400cfm fan for one minute, or a 200 cfm fan for two minutes, or a 50 cfm for four minutes and so on. The burner must be OFF while you vent. Most burners rate btu by the hour, or 60 minutes. So if you use fans you would need to divide btu per hour amount by the amount of fan cycles per hour. Let's say you want to vent 4 times an hour. That would be 60 / 4 = 15 minutes. You would set a timer to run your burner for 15 minutes before you vent. Then you would turn your vents on for the amount of time needed to turn the air in your space twice. The cycle-stat timer from General Hygrow in the GrowFaq wold work perfect for this. You would need to use a DPDT relay. A DPDT relay is basically two switches in one relay. When power is sent to the relay swich#1 turns on and switch #2 turns off, and when power is remover, swich#1 turns back off and swich#2 turns back on. This would make it possible to run your burners and your fans off of the same timer. When your burner turns off, your fans will automatically get turned on, and when your vent cycle is over, your burners will turn back on and automatically turn you fans off. The Co2/vent cycle for above would be burn for 15 min, Vent for one minute and repeat . So you would Set you timer for 15miutes on and 1 minute off. If your fans are not big enough to vent your space in one minute, you would go 15 minutes on and 2,3,4 or how ever many minutes off and then repeat. Every time you vent you will vent out the Co2 and you have to run your burner afterwards to replace it.. I posted this because Co2 supplementation is a fairly good advantage while growing, but you can't really find good info on it any were. Your only choice with out info like this is buying a 300+ dollar system and 500+ dollar controllers or using inferior ways to supplement your grow. If anybody has good info on other ways to create Co2 such as the yeast and sugar or Oxalic Acid and electrodes please post the details. The more info made available the more we all can benefit.
Recommended carbon dioxide supplementation is between 1000 and 2000ppm, depending on light intensity, from germination or during the rooting of cuttings through final maturation. The leaves will develop larger stomata when undergoing development within a carbon dioxide supplemented atmosphere, increasing their ability to photosynthesize when fully developed. Suplementation delays maturation by keeping the plant's metabolism producing additional growth, instead of ripening. Use it throughout to the final moment and run it during the curing and drying process to further assist additional metabolization. This is accomplished using a Green Air Products digital ppm carbon dioxide controller connected to dual aluminum tanks. This system is the most accurate and flexible monitoring system. Higher levels of carbon dioxide can be utilized under higher light conditions (above 50 watts/sqare foot), especially during vegetative growth when ambient temperatuires can be allowed to increase to 90 degrees. Carbon dioxide levels are maintained between 1600-2000ppm during vegetative and early flowering. When the buds begin to fill in, I lower ambient temperatures below 80 degrees and lower carbon dioxide levels to 1000-1200 ppm. Higher temperatures are necessary for the plant metabolism to increase and fully utilize higher levels of carbon dioxide, but will deteriorate cannabinoids in the resin glands
i wouldn't add co2 for 9 plants......it's a very fine line between enough and too much.........if you were growing say 50+ then yes it may be an idea......but why do you want to?.....to get more bushy lants or what?.......i have 4 on the go at the moment and they are really bushy allready....the key is light suppression....the more light, the more they have to bush out instead of stretch upwards.......hence bushy = more buds.......but if you feel you must then the water and sugar and yiest will do the trick, hell some people even add in piss as well.....lol.....but for 9, i'd just get lots of light on them and do some training as well......tieing them down to get light to the lower growth as well......hope that helps you.......Peace out........Sid
well, for the 5bucks or so for the yeast and sugar.. the accelerated growth rates and initial strentgth and vigour would be worth it.. i just wasnt sure if the CO2 created by the production centers would be enough to positively affect the plants in a noticeable way?? in theory, if there is ventilation, but there is also a constant supply of CO2 to the plants, than they would still recieve extra levels of CO2, and definitely more than the original 300ppm level that naturally occurs in our atmosphere. but in practice, who knows? i guess the only way to find out is to give it a try... ive heard many good things about CO2 supplementation, from higher yields to accelerated growth rates.. if you think about it, a plant really needs only three main things, and carbondioxide is one of them! i would really like to increace the amount of light on the plants, but cant afford much more of an electricity bill increace.. as an increace of almost 30% is going to be noticed anyways... the electricity bill is only 50CDN / month and having a 430watt HID in there along with the fans going 24/7 is going to spike the bill from 50 to almost 70 dollars!!! hey sid, in your travels, have you seen any effective electicity saving measures that wouldnt be noticeable? (ie: cant have the heat at 10deg or have those giant bulbous energy saving flourous sticking out everywhere..) thx for replying, dragoon
what i did was to replace all my bulbs with the energy saving ones.....ie i had 10 nomal bulbs at 100w, and replaced them with the energy ones at 14w each=140w........1000w-140w=860w of available power......these energy bulbs will emit the equivelant of 75w of light so you only loose approx 25w of light but have gained enough for you're HPS.......hope that helps.....Peace out.....Sid
not to disagree with sid...u da man, but... CO2 is "THE" limiting factor in terra firma growing outside. i will agree that inside there is a difference and that light is prob the limiting factor in most indoor growing situations but certainly CO2 can not hurt the situation. and i think that dragoon is right...for the few $$$ it costs for sugar...why not go for it. i dont think u need that large of co2 producer either...just a small version will do the trick in a small area. a 2 liter bottle type of co2 bubbler is what i use and i dont know if it helps but i DO know it doesnt hurt. and id do anything for my babies
i didn't mean to put you off it, it's just that i can't be bothered using the bottle and sugar and yeast, and changing it.....not for my set-up as most of it will go straight out the door as it has to be open 24/7.....like froggy said there's nothing better for the veg stage if you can be bothered to add it.....but just be carefull how much in a closed room.....i used it on my last grow and found it o.k. but not a lot of diffrence, however i beleive this is due to the door being open.......good luck and keep us posted on how it goes.......Peace out......Sid
hey everybody! hows it goin? here goes... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- awesome! i think im going to do that! although.. before i thought that the only energy saving ones were those bulbous freaks that cost like 10bone each.. ill shop around for some normal looking cheaper energy efficient bulbs.. thx! sounds good to me! thats sortof along the lines i was thinking.. if it only cost a couple of bucks.. why not? it cant hurt them.. (unless theres wayy to much CO2 in there, but thats not really a problem unless you have a generator or a cannister) when my hood is finally built and my grow is started ill document the results.. pece! cont'd..
THX! i hope it does.. CO2 sounds like an easy way to help your plants to me.. even if its only a little bit.. its worth the 5 bone in my opinion... yupp! totally agree with ya! in an open setup like yours the CO2 would just drift outside, matter always moves from areas of high density to areas of low density! but in a closed or semi-closed setup... i think im going to try to measure how much it puts out(ie: garbage bag the end of the tube and weigh the final product) so that i dont overflood my grow.. (doubtful but possibly possible..?? does that make sense.. bah.. ignore me im stoned ) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- THX for all your comments/suggestions! like i said above, when my growroom is finally setup and my babies are growing ill try to take pics and keep you all updated! thx again, pece&karma, dragoon
if your grow room is like super small (less than 4sq. ft) then lighting a candle inside your growbox (be sure to have a place to catch the dripping wax, so you dont burn down your house) and the flame from the candle uses up oxygen and replaces it with CO2. *note - this wont work with ventilation. if your only ventilation is opening the door a few times a day, then this meatod will work.
thx for replying hippie john! lol, although ive heard horror stories of people who came home one day to the smell of burning pot plants... every growers nightmare... ive read up on it, and although in theory is feasable and naturally satisfying.. (it can be thought of as a circle, the flame uses up the plants' waste products and produces CO2, which in turn is used by the plant to produce more oxygen which keeps the flame going..) it probably isnt one of the best options, as i myself dont want an open flame within a billion feet of my babies, dont know about you all... i suggest a CO2 tank, and if that isnt possible or reasonable, than go for the yeast method... im going to the paintball gunnery shop here this weekend.. pretty sure they sell CO2 cartriges for larger guns in the 20oz sizes.. i still might try the yeast method.. duno yet, ill update when the time comes.. peace & karma all, dragoon