Might be making the switch to canna, but i read they formulate it for use with 200ppm tap water. Mine is 30ppm. Would it be ok to use without calmag? Can i make up for it instead with calcium nitrate and epsom salts? cheers
Just b/c your tap is~30ppm and contains some Ca&Mg doesnt necessarily mean you can use the canna line w/o supplementing.. BTW, what % of Ca and Mg does the canna line bottle show?..Knowing that and at what levels you'll be feeding and or is recommended, one can determine if supplementing is needed or not..That and the girls will let you know.. http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm Some nute lines may contain enough Ca but not enough Mg, so it only makes sense that if one were to need an Mg supplement, one would need to only provide Mg, and not by adding Calmag+ which would more than likely cause antagonisms.. So for me, if additional Mg is needed, I use ES, which also supplies sulfur.. To each their own, yeah!.. Peace..
Go on the Canna site and use their calculator. Choose "custom setting" on the water type and enter your values. It will give you the feeding schedule you need with out adding Cal-Mag.
Canna coco A+B has something like 4.5% calcium and 1.5% magnesium. There is plenty of cal-mag in their base to begin with, even for your soft water. 10ml per gallon of each nets you more than 110ppm of calcium in the solution. The reason Botanicare's Cal-Mag Plus is so effective with canna in soft water is actually due to the chelated iron it contains. Without the iron new growth will be yellow and weak. You tap water may contain the needed iron, it may not... I used 1-2ml of cal-mag plus back in the day when I was on my 35ppm Oregon water and had really good results. The bottle is like $15 at the shop for a quart, so that ran me about $0.03 per gallon. You could also use CES Micro in place of the Cal-Mag Plus. It is about twice the concentration, it contains more micro elements, and has several forms of chelated iron, for about the same price. I think that the best course of action is for you try to go without it and if you see an iron deficiency then you can go pick up a bottle and begin to use it sparingly.
Is there a point in growth where supplementing with calcium becomes irrelevant? My current mix contains just over 20ppm of calcium in addition to whatever is in my 80ppm tap and I am about 3-4 weeks from finishing with a total feed of EC 1.1 / 550ppm. So far everyone looks happy, but its only been a couple feedings and I know calcium is slow moving. Is the coco holding enough at this point, to release it with enough to spare?
I can't find calmag in this country, no one at all stocks botanicare. This an american brand? because that will be why, not economical to import from the states. Though we have gh which is american too is it not? Calmag just isn't an option or I'd already have some by now
You are probably okay without it then but keep you eyes peeled for something similar. Maybe ghe has a cal mag with iron in it you could use(if it turns out you need it)?
967, Check with a Aquarium store. They have individual products and what is called Trace Elements in all sizes.
Haven't yet found calmag in any shape or form. Though i guess i could try the nursery see if they have something with iron in it. Will ask my brother about aquarium shop ashe used to be an aquariest? What are some other products to look out for that contain a good source of iron? Had a thought - i could stop eating meat and go see the doc for iron pills, crush That shit up in there. Or just not make the move over to canna..
Come to think of it i did get iron def. using canna in veg a while back. Internet told me to try rusty nails in water... lol. But i think even with iron def. it still outperformed h&g forveg, only stopped using it as the shop i used to buy from closed down. Now i want to flower with it too, seems the best choice out of what's available to me
How so? all i want to do is change base nutes. been using h&g for a while now. time to experiment with other brands
It's just your posts from around the place. I just think you need to just completely wipe all this bullshit from your database and start again from the very beginning. If you haven't had a healthy vigorous grow under your belt using the most basic nutrient regime then you really really need to start there. Honestly mate, get into the beginners guide thread and I'll take you along step by step, I don't mind at all. Experimenting with other brands should be the last thing on your mind right now. If people can see how simple this is, then I'm 100% sure they'll look back on how complicated they made it for themselves... rusty nails.. iron tablets...?? With regards isolated element deficiencies; I'll tell you this straight, if people have/think they have or have had an iron deficiency, 99% of the time, loathe though they'd be to admit it, they've fucked up somewhere, be it a ph issue or a lockout, or some other messing about with shit they should have left alone. Find me a healthy grow of a grower who has a history of bringing perfect healthy looking plants to completion, who uses a balanced and consistent feeding strategy, who just one day runs up on a deficiency of a single element such as iron. You'll find loads of growers who think they had one. Not many who have witnesses who say they did. I mean, telling you to keep an eye out for iron def and have certain products at the ready when you're not even running a simple system effectively.... it's not where your focus should be at all. If you go looking for it then you'll find it, even if it isn't there, and if you remedy a phantom problem then whatever real issue you have goes untreated. In my opinion the real issue you have is that you haven't got a simple system down yet and you're messing round trying to tweak stuff.
I saw it with my own eyes but not at my own hands. At the Hydroponics store they were growing several vegetables in coco with canna. The Chards and Peppers that didn't get the iron they needed showed very obvious signs of the deficiency. With filtered water and Canna Coco A+B there isn't anywhere to get the iron from. Plants need iron... sooo... you're going to get a deficiency if it isn't in the water or supplemented elsewhere. You do have clean water 967, but it isn't pure. Iron is required in low levels, 4-8ppm, so you're not screwed with Canna if you happen to have that in the impurities. Do you have access to water tests in European countries? Canna is a quality program if you're hitting all cylinders and use it as suggested.
You're basing your advice on peppers you saw in a hydro store? Are you serious? If this is true, then buy a different brand of nutrient and save yourself the headaches.
I have had one healthy grow using just the basics.. soil lol. And i wasn't serious about the iron pills haha. Like i said, i think i don't let the roots establish enough before veg, so get problems during veg which come right around flower. Flowering plants look great apart from a slight curling up on the leaf edges and slight paling of fan leaves now i'm flushing. I ran just h&g first grow, that was all good. Ran h&g with koolbloom in weak doses second grow, that was about the same, until i got mold problems and buds not retaining moisture both at the same time. This grow i used h&g, koolbloom recommended strength, molasses, regen-a-root, fulvic acid and the occasional epsom, and its far better than the first two grows. Can't really compare yield as i haven't utilized the space the way i wanted to, and there are less plants etc but the buds are somewhat larger and more resin coated than previous attempts For some reason my plants just don't seem to drink right early veg or something. I've tried giving them 0.4EC, 0.6, 0.8 and even 1.0EC and still the yellowing does not go away, nor do they seem to burn. This room gets fresh air from under my house and it is winter so it is cold. And i'm using a pretty crappy hps so maybe not photosynthesising correctly? I did indeed see the iron def. with my own eyes using canna so maybe i do need to look at alternatives My current lot of clones have gone all retarded tri-finger and what not cos i took them off flowering plants. If you want to try help me get them nice and healthy watcher, ill give you some background on it and follow your suggestions cos shit i'm out of ideas. I just know sooner or later down the line they will come right..
Hey scmc, I think at 4.5% Ca and 1.5%Mg the numbers are closer to ~120ppm Ca and 40ppm Mg no?...Nitpicking, I know!.. Anyhow, IF I were using Coco A+B at 10ml,/gal, I would consider a boost in Mg to get me a ~2:1 CA:Mg ratio..1gr/gal ES for a ~26ppm Mg boost....Course if there where no signs of a deficiency than no additional supplemented would be required..I would not use Calmag+ in my garden with ~120ppm Ca and ~65ppm Mg with the added ES ...YMMV.. As always not everyone's gardens are identical and so, to each their own, and what best works for you, yeah!.. 967, I also agree that you need to get back to basics, since you haven't quite been successful your firs couple times..And trust me when I say this buddy, you are not helping your quest for success by including additives/supplements to your basic base nutes, if you don't know how to use them(no offense).. Read the labels on whatever nute brand you use and calculate where your levels are at, NPK, micros etc..feed them lightly at first and work your way up from there..Most if not all nute CO's are lacking some element(s) or just not enough , to get you to buy yet another bottle ..So as stated, consider another brand, if the current one is not complete..Lots of peeps have success with canna..Heck I wouldn't mind trying em meself sometime..Except it's hard to fix what ain't broke.. None of us can monitor your grow from afar, savvyy!..We can only offer tips/help based on personal experience(s).. Good luck!..
[quote name='"cheecha"'] Hey scmc, I think at 4.5% Ca and 1.5%Mg the numbers are closer to ~120ppm Ca and 40ppm Mg no?...Nitpicking, I know!.. Anyhow, IF I were using Coco A+B at 10ml,/gal, I would consider a boost in Mg to get me a ~2:1 CA:Mg ratio..1gr/gal ES for a ~26ppm Mg boost....Course if there where no signs of a deficiency than no additional supplemented would be required..I would not use Calmag+ in my garden with ~120ppm Ca and ~65ppm Mg with the added ES ...YMMV.. As always not everyone's gardens are identical and so, to each their own, and what best works for you, yeah!.. [/quote] Hey! I did say "more than..." Canna was my introduction to growing. Honestly, there isn't anything I have found that does better in veg. The other guys make it sound like if your nutrient program isn't perfect for your water and your plants then there is something wrong with those nutes. The truth of the matter is that not everybody has the same water and nutrient companies cannot make a "one size fits all" because of the variation. When the water you have access to isn't ideal, whether it be too hard or too soft, the grower must apply not just nutrients, but also their brain. Canna has an easy system. All a grower really needs with the correct water hardness is A&B with the Cannazym 0-1-2 to fix the ratio for flowering. Canna is not a waste of money and anyone who has any experience with the brand knows that. I think I have burned through 4L of the stuff myself. The rhizotonic is expensive but also very effective. The PK13/14 is used so infrequently that if you do get the stuff get it in the 250ml size. CannaBoost is okay stuff but totally unnecessary, and with the price tag on that one... Forget about it. A base suited for vegetative plants and a mild PK supplement to adjust the ratio for bloom is about as simple as it gets. I stand by my advice that you should try the system out without adding supplements. Maybe you can find the "mono nutrient" line from canna or contact them directly for advice on ensuring you do not lack the micro elements they expect your tap water to have.
Yeah, I may try Canna nutes sometime when I get a chance..Not b/c I feel it'll perform better than my current lines ATM, CNS17/PBP, and jackpeters dry ferts, but more of a you know, try it out for meself kinda thingy..... I already rock canna coco, so might give the base nutes a whirl.. Cool!..