Buddy McNugs First Grow - Indoor Soil w/ CFL LED - AK99, BB, Random Bagseed - 2014

Discussion in 'Indoor Grow Journals' started by Buddy McNugs, Nov 2, 2014.

  1. Hello Everyone. I am excited to be joining the community here. Now that it is finally legal to grow in my state, I have decided to try my hand at doing a small grow with only a couple plants for personal use. I am completely new to growing anything, so all help and advice along the way would be much appreciated. I have been researching the forums for a while and have a basic understanding of what I need to do, but am still having trouble finding some things like watering guides, fertilizer guides, etc. I will go into more detail about that a little farther down in this first post. Now for the good stuff. Here is the basic info:

    What strain is it?
    Joey Weed AK99 and BlueBerry. Also a couple random bagseed.

    Is it in Veg or Flower stage?
    Seedlings - 2 days since they popped above soil

    Indoor or outdoor?

    Soil or Hydro?

    If soil... what is in your mix?
    Foxfarm Ocean Forest mixed with perlite

    If soil... What size pot?
    Starting in Solo Cups then moving to 3 Gallon pots for rest of grow

    Size of light?
    Starting with 6-8 23w 6500k CFLs for Veg and then getting a 200 - 300w LED for Flowering

    Type of grow area?
    Using a Sterilite Plastic Storage Cabinet I got at Walmart - 26"(W) x 18"(D) x 36"(H)

    I have some very old seeds I am using for this grow. These seeds are over 8 years old, lol. The first two strains I am using for this grow are from Joey Weed, which I believe is no longer selling seeds. Those two are AK99 (AK47 x Cindy 99) and Blueberry. I had started germinating old random bagseed first to get some practice before trying the AK99 and BB. I found that my best method with these old seeds was to give them a 24 hour soak in a cup of tap water then move them to a wet folded paper towel between two paper plates. I then sat that on top of my TV to give it a little heat since my house stays around 68 degrees. After 2-3 days they started showing roots so I moved them to Solo Cups with plastic wrap over them until they pop soil.

    In the Solo Cups, I mixed around 60% Foxfarm Ocean Forest soil with about 40% perlite. Here are four of the seedlings while I wait for the rest to pop soil.
    One of the seedlings has two white spots, does that mean anything? Notice anything else I should be aware of? When I planted them in the Solo Cups, I put the soil mixture in, poured in warm water until it started draining out the bottom, let it drain until it stopped draining. I have not watered the seedlings since then it has been 2 days since they popped above the soil. It feels moist to me, but I am certainly no expert. Should I water them again? When should I first water them and how much? I definitely don't want to over water them as I read that is one of the biggest mistakes new growers make. I know the FFOF soil is rich in nutrients so I probably won't have to feed them anything for a while, right?

    The seedlings are now sitting under a bright CFL light on my lamp while I finish the cabinet. I did some research and decided on getting the Sterilite plastic storage cabinet from Walmart:
    They sell the smaller one and another that is basically two small ones stacked on top of each other. I am using this cabinet for the Veg cycle and am planning to get a bigger cabinet/pantry to use for flowering. From what I read on forums, that Sterilite cabinet shows the light through the sides and doors pretty bad so I got some flat black spray paint and painted the inside first and let it dry. Then I used spray glue to attach mylar throughout the inside. Tomorrow I plan to work on building the CFL lighting fixture using two power strips with 3 to 4 23watt 6500k CFL bulbs on each. The plan is to use a piece of wood, maybe 2x4, maybe 1x2, and mount the power strips to both sides of the board and either hang that from the ceiling of build some kind of frame to hold it above the lights. I am doing the 6 or 8 CFLs during Veg in the cabinet and then plan to have a 200 - 300w LED by the time they switch to flowering. I plan to cut a vent in the back of the cabinet near the floor for a passive intake and will use 1 - 2 pc fans for an exhaust at the top that goes into some kind of DIY odor cleaning box. I will take some pictures of the cabinet and lights after I get it put together tonight or tomorrow.

    Now for some questions I have. Does anyone know of a simple idiot proof guide to watering plants based on their age? Something like week 1, water this much, week 2-3, water this much, etc. If something like that has been written up, I would love a link to it as I have been unable to find it using search. A fertilizer feeding schedule like that would be awesome too.

    All questions, comments, and advice is welcome and appreciated. I am learning as I go, so I am hoping I can lean on the forum community here for help along the way. Thanks for reading, looking forward to learning all I can during this grow.
  2. Hey Buddy! Make sure you keep your CFLs nice and close to those babies. Ya don't want them getting all lanky! Also, it'll be interesting to see what temps you get running 6-8 CFLs in that small space. Good luck, man! :smokin:
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  3. #3 highnifty, Nov 2, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2014
    Oh and about the watering regiment. I go by pot weight. They'll get on a better schedule the older they get. That, or when the top inch or two is dry, depending on pot size. But there's no fool proof guide because there are so many variables. Pot size and material, medium, plant's health and strain, air movement, light, grower, ect.
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  4. Hi thanks for the welcome and advice!  I think I will try keeping a dry cup of soil nearby so I can compare weight to know when to water.  I am going to be setting up a passive intake / active exhaust that I am hoping will help with temps.  I have 4 pc fans I can set up if need be but I am going to try it with only one at first and then upgrade as needed with more.  I am also going to put the cabinet where the intake is right by a vent that will be putting out cool air.  I keep my house around 68 degrees so I am hoping that will help too. 

    This morning I put the cabinet together and used foil tape to fill in gaps.  I used Duct tape to cover the seams where the panels connected then covered that with the foil tape so I hope that helps keep light and air in.  Here are a few pictures of the completed cabinet(for some reason some of the pics uploaded sideways even though they are vertical on my computer, will make sure to compensate for that with future pictures):


    Now I am going to start working on the CFL power strip fixture to go inside the cabinet.  One of the seedlings is stretching like crazy so the sooner I can get them under proper lights the better.  Here is a close up of them:


    I will take some more pictures after I have the lighting set up.  
  5. I have been thinking about my lighting setup and am considering doing LED instead of CFL for veg.  I was going to do 8 23w CFLs for veg but think LED may be a better choice.  I was going to do LED for flowering anyway, but I think I may buy a smaller LED for veg.  Here are the two I am thinking of:

    http://www.mars-hydro.com/led-grow-light-100-3w.html - TOPLed 100x3w


    http://www.mars-hydro.com/reflector-led-grow-light-48-3w-74.html - TOPLed 48x3w

    My cabinet measures 26"(W) x 18"(D) x 36"(H).  What does everyone think?  These LEDs should be better for temps in my small cabinet, wouldn't they?  Which do you think is better?  The first one appears to be an older model but says 300w vs the second one is a newer reflector model but says 150w.  Both are basically the same price.  It looks like from the coverage ratings on their site either would cover my small area.  I know that more wattage is usually better, but seeing as how they are both basically the same price from the same manufacturer, does that mean the second newer model is more efficient and is as good or better than the older model 300w one?  

    I would like to make the purchase by tomorrow morning, so any advice, experience, or comments would be appreciated.
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  6. #6 Buddy McNugs, Nov 2, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2014
    I wanted to update my lighting question above, I am looking for a LED for only the Veg period.  I will be using a different LED I get later for flowering and will also be flowering in a different taller cabinet.  So I am trying to find out which of those two above are best for Veg.  I would not be using it at all during flowering.  So, if I got the one with the switch, I would probably not turn the flowering part on until late in Veg before going to flowering.  This has me leaning towards the 100x3w unless someone advices otherwise.
  7. On my first grow I veg'd for 9 weeks under 6 "200 watt" CFLs, then was able to switch to a 400w MH and two warm CFLs for flower. I ended up flowering one girl and she herm'd on me and was seedy as fuck. But I learned a lot! I like the idea of LEDs, but I honestly think your money would be better spent on a solid ventilation. I've never used a computer fan, so I'm not sure of their abilities for exhaust. But I bought a 200ish cfm 4" inline exhaust fan and a carbon filter for $200something. Then I picked up a speed control dial and I was good to go! If you have the $, awesome, get both the LED and exhaust upgrade and you'd have yourself a complete cannabis cabinet! But, I'd hate to see you spend all your money on a light that may end up running too warm and stress your plants to herm. Maybe if you used two computer fans for intake and two for exhaust? I don't think one computer fan as an exhaust has the CFMs to create enough negative air inside the grow to have a sufficient passive intake of cool air.
    I'm following along though, so keep it up and time will tell! Check out my grow. We have similar spaces.

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  8. Hi, thanks for stopping by.  Yea, I think that the LED is out of the picture for this cabinet.  From what I am hearing, it would need to be around 18" from the plants so going to go back to CFLs.  I hope 8 23w CFLs will be good enough.  Regarding ventiliation, these PC fans are bigger than the usual ones, and actual have a regular power plug on them.  I got them a while back and they are pretty quiet while pulling a good bit of air for their size.  I hope that one will work, but may switch to two or more if needed.  I will keep an eye on the temps.

    I have another question for anyone that knows about using CFLs.  I read that when using CFLs for Veg, you want to get 6500k.  I have looked at my local stores and have only been able to find 5000k CFLs.  I assume these would work but just won't be as good as the 6500k?  Is that right?  Should I just go ahead and get those 5000k ones or keep looking around until I find the 6500k CFLs somewhere?  Is it that big of a difference?  This is only for Veg.
  9. #9 Buddy McNugs, Nov 3, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2014
    After doing some more research it looks like most say 6500k is better, but some say 5000k is better.  Either way, I cannot find the 6500k bulbs around here for a good price so I am going to buy the 5000k ones to use during veg.  Good news is I happened to find a couple 6500k cfls that I will mix in with the others so I should have a mix of about 6 23w 5000k cfls and 2 23w 6500k cfls.  Maybe having the two different types will help.  
  10. Ok, here is how the cabinet build is going.  I was going to build something to hang my lights from but happened to find a metal wire shelving unit that were almost perfect dimensions to fit inside my box.  With a little squeezing I was able to get it in there and it is working perfectly.  Here is a picture of the cabinet with the shelf inside:

    I found a new in box air coolable HPS reflector hood at a yard sale and talked him down to $10 since it was missing the glass, which I don't need anyway.  I got a small piece of wood and cut it to length and attached two power strips to it using cable ties.  I then mounted the piece of wood to the top of the inside of hood using more cable ties connected to eye screws that I screwed into the wood.  Here is a picture of that completed:
    Then I took some plug in sockets and dual socket adapters and plugged them into the power outlets and then plugged in 8 23w 6500k Daylight CFLs.  I was going to hook up 10 in there but I messed up one of the adapters and will get a replacement in the next couple days.  Here is a picture of the hood with lights in it:

    Then, I hung up the hood with lights from the top shelf of the shelving unit using the hangers that came in the box with hood.  Here is a picture of it hanging in the cabinet, luckily, it JUST fits inside with doors shut:

    And here is a picture of it with the lights on:

    I know the plants are too low in this picture, I am going to stack some stuff under them to get the tops of the plants 2-3 inches from the lights. 
    How does the setup look?  Anyone have any suggestions?
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  11. lol this hood is taking up so much room in the cabinet.  But it looks like it is doing a good job reflecting the light.  Maybe it being so big is a good thing, keeps most of the light down on the plants.  I can feel it is a little warmer in there than I thought.  Still not too hot I don't think.  I don't have a regular thermometer yet.  I laid a meat thermometer in there for a few minutes and it was around mid 70s.  Ha, not sure if that even works the same.  I will get a thermometer in the next couple days.  I guess a cheap digital thermometer from Walmart or Target would work, doesn't have to have any special functions?  Will I need to worry about humidity with this setup?  If so, should I get some kind of gauge for that?
  12. Wow, this little cabinet gets hot when the lights are on with doors shut.  I got my thermometer today and mounted it inside.  The temps were in the low 70s with the doors open.  I tested it with the doors shut for 10 minutes and the temps were already up to low 80s.  I have the doors open now and will have to keep them open during light period(going to be doing 18/6) until I can get my fan(s) installed.
  13. Just wanted to stop in and see how your temps are. Got those fans rigged up yet?

    Sent from my iPad using Grasscity Forum
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  14. I am still keeping the doors open when running the lights and temps ar staying aound 79/80.  I got my PC fans(each is 90CFM) and a fan controller for them and will be installing one or two of those today or tomorrow and will post pictures of the project.
    The leaves on my seedlings have been droopy since yesterday.  The night before last I added a little more water to each cup, so I am thinking this may be from over watering?  I let it drain out the bottom so I thought I was ok until seeing this.


    If it is over watering, is there anything I need to do or do I just be more careful about my watering from now on?
  15. I decided to go ahead and hook up one of he fans now to get some air flow i there and hopefully cool it down a few degrees while I work on my intake/exhaust.  I took one of my pc fan, mounted it between two slats of thin wood and attached it to the back of my box.  There is only an inch or so clearance behind the fan but I have it connected to the controller and is on its lowest setting.  I think this should work well while I get everything else set up.  Here are some pictures:

    First the fan mounted to the two slats of wood:


    Now the fan mounted inside the cabinet:


    And last the fan mounted inside with the plants in.  I have the plants stacked closer to the bulbs I just did it this way to get a good picture:


    Anyone have any suggestions or tips?
  16. Ok, I am starting to get worried now.  Here are how they are looking this morning:


    Last night I watered them again and the two on the left I watered a little more than the other two to see if I wasn't putting enough water in.  Any thoughts?  Still trying to figure out if this is from overwatering, underwatering, too much heat(was in low 80s in there), or humidity issues. I got a thermometer that also reads humidity and have that in there.  It has only been in there a few minutes and is reading 37%, but started at 40% a few minutes ago when I put it in(default setting when I turned it on) and it may continue to drop.  

    Any advice would be much appreciated!
  17. Well, the plants are still looking a little droopy.  Is it just me or do a couple of them look kinda crinkly too?  I know everyone is saying I may have overwatered but they still look sad and its been a couple days since I last watered them.  It is hard not to water them, they look like they need it, lol.  Here are a few pictures from this morning:
    First all four from the top:
    Next, close ups of the plants two at a time:
    Now all four from the side:
    Temps are reading mid 70s in one part of cabinet and 80 at another part of cabinet.  I keep trying to get humidity up but it is staying around 40%.  I think once I get the intake/exhaust set up and can close the doors the humidity will be better in there.  

    So, we are still thinking it is overwatering and I should just continue to leave them be?  Just hate sitting by and doing nothing to help them, but if that's the best thing to do I will.  Any other tips or advice or should I just continue to wait and see?
  18. #18 Buddy McNugs, Nov 9, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2014
    Thanks to advice I have been given I have not watered my plants anymore and the seem to be perking up a bit.  Here are a couple pictures of the ladies(hopefully) from this morning:

    First from the top:

    And from the side:

    Temps are staying in the 77 - 81 range(81 in one spot directly under the middle lights but a few inches to the sides it is high 70s.  I am planning to hopefully cut my intake today.  Probably going to try some kind of light baffle design.  I am don't have a lot of experience in DIY projects, but am learning as I go along thanks to all the great info and help here on the forums.  I will post an update of the intake once I have figured out what I am going to do.  

    The plan is to cut something like a 10" by 2" rectangular passive intake hole along the bottom back of the cabinet then one or two holes near the top for exhaust.  May start with one pc fan size hole(around 4" x 4") and see how that does and if I need to cut another I will.  I will be doing some more research because I think my exhaust hole is supposed to be the same or a little bigger than my intake.  Can anyone tell me if I should put the pc fans right up against the wall blowing out for exhaust or would it be better to set them up a couple inches from the wall and use a short run of duct to the exhaust hole?  Does it matter?
  19. Ok, this morning, they look like they are still perking up.  One of them still looks wrinkly.  Should I just go ahead and get rid of that one?  I don't mind thinning a couple out because I have good seeds that have popped above soil and are ready to come in the cabinet.  I am only going to be growing 5-6 during veg and then hope to take 2-3 into flower.  These 4 are from random bag seeds from lower quality stuff so I started out with these to test the waters and figure out some do's and don'ts before using my Joey Weed AK99 and Blueberry seeds.  Well, the AK99 and BB are ready to come into the cabinet so I need to make some room soon because I don't want to grow more than 5-6 plants at a time.  So here are the pictures below from the 4 bagseed plants that I was having problems with:

    First from the top:


    Now from the side:


    As you can see, the wrinkly one(bottom left in the picture) I was talking about still doesn't look so great.  I could actually stand to get rid of two if I needed to.  Should I get rid of the two on the left or just the wrinkly one?  Also, I don't know if you can tell from the pictures, but there are some very small light yellow spots on the leaves of a couple of the plants closest to the lights.  The tallest plants are now about 2" from the CFLs.  Think I should lower them another inch so they are at least 3" from the lights?
  20. Ok, I think I have figured out my ventilation.  The plan is to drill a line of 1/2" holes across the very bottom of the back of cabinet and that will feed into a thin flat blacked out box with a hole cut in the top with a vent filter or two covering the hole.  Then the exhaust will be in the center of the top and will be a 6" x 6" square of 1/2" drilled holes that will have a PC fan hooked to it via about one foot of duct that will be painted black inside and bent in an elbow to trap light.  I know PC fans don't do great with duct, but a short bend of duct shouldn't be too much of a problem, should it?  If so, I could do maybe a shoebox in the top of the box with the fan attached to one side blowing into the blacked out shoebox that is attached to the back/holes.  I am drilling holes instead of cutting out big holes because I think it will be less obvious than having a couple vent covers attached to the back.  

    I would love to hear others' opinions of my plan or suggestions/alterations.

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