Bubble Bucketeer trying to understand PH and PPM. Hello there everyone. So as a background, I have read up a lot on this, but in practical use I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. I'm hoping I can post some questions, my understanding on how this works, and then someone might be able to clear away the spider-mite webs for me (the webs figuratively in my head, not on my plants ;-) Where to start? I guess you should know a bit about my setup. I am in a cab grow. I have a 400W MH/HPS lamp in a glass bottomed hood. I have a 6" ducting from the outside, through the hood, out the other side where there is a 6" inline duct fan @ 160CFM (I think) and this is just for cooling the hood. 2 bubble buckets with one Strawberry Cough (or Kush?) clone and one AK47 clone given by a friend/grandmother. One mistake I made was putting the clones right at the bottom of the net pot. Thus I couldn't fill it with the hydroton without choking the clone/plant. I had to remove about half of the hydroton. I'm hoping as they get bigger I will be able to refill the netpot to the top with hydroton, but I don't think I will be able to lift the plant up, put hydroton underneath and refill as the roots have already bound themselves to and through the netpot. I don't want to rip any roots. It's a mistake because I'm having to Macguyver ways to keep light from entering into the BB through the netpots. I installed 4" fans into the back of the cab to bring air in. They do that, but I found that they were not hitting the top of the BB. And I didn't foil tape the bucket lids, left them black. So it was starting to warm up too much right around the plants. I put in some little fans to take care of that. Those fans seemed to really help. When the clones first went in, they didn't seem too happy. Wilting and curling under. I think ultimately it was that the roots hadn't really reached a level where they could compete with the heat from the light. But once those fans got on em, and the roots started growing, blam-o! All that was in this post here: http://forum.grasscity.com/sick-plants-problems/606023-clones-just-put-into-dwc-pics.html There is also a Stanley Fan Mod inside the cab blowing out through 6" ducting into a carbon scrubber outside the cab. I was worried that it wouldn't be able to push enough air through the scrubber, but when I tested the cab - closed it up with everything on, lit an incense stick and saw that the smoke was pulled into the cab wherever there was a crease. That's good for keeping the stank in I believe. Ballast is outside cab. All this is in a room in my basement apartment. Only one basement window in the room, and that is under an upstairs porch, so nobody can see inside. Barley lets in any sunlight too. Which is good as my dark periods are during the day to avoid daytime heat build up. I will install a tower fan once the plants get bigger, and take out the small fans I placed over each plant. NOW TO THE CRUX OF THIS POST PH & PPM First off, I'm using tap water. Measurements of this water is below in the data. I'm using FoxFarm trio of Grow Big - Big Bloom - Tiger Bloom (but behind schedule on purpose, more to come on this) I only just added nutes this weekend. And I only added the amount of nutes you would add to a Seed & Cutting (one week behind or so) according to the FoxFarm nuet guide : http://www.foxfarmfertilizer.com/hydrofeed.pdf I've read that FF expects you to be using tap water at 200 or so PPM and that should be figured into that chart. I only added that amount as I've read a lot of people saying to go easy on the FF nuets. So while my plants are not that big, they are defiantly more than a seed/cutting, and have a root system/bundle (again, not big, but not a cutting). So I thought that was a safe level to start off with. I've noticed that adding the FoxFarm nutes usually lowers my PH by 1 full step (from say 6.5 to 5.5) maybe less, I'll take notes on my next water change. Here is my PH & PPM data from the last couple of days, since the water change on Sunday. ****DATA**** Day 1 after res change - StrawB PH=4.90 PPM=550 AK PH=5.23 PPM=488 Day 2 - StrawB PH=4.88 PPM=520 AK PH=6.95 PPM=485 adjusted the AK with PHDown 2nd reading AK PH=5.5 PPM=499 Day 3 - Measure Tap Water today. PH=8 (surprised me, I could have sworn I measured it before around 6.8. interesting, I'll have to measure the tap over the next couple of days to see if there are fluctuations. I had assumed that tap PH would be steady.) Tap PPM=167 StrawB PH=6.69 PPM=549 AK PH=6.34 PPM=511 adjusted both with PHDown AND tap water Adj StrawB PH=5.88 PPM=485 Adj AK PH=5.88 PPM=475 *************** Some questions: Are the Dissolved Solids in tap water something plants would like/consume? It seems like I'm chasing some PH dragon. Any advice? Looks like a lot of people use RO water. I thought my tap water was pretty good where I am, but should I rethink this? How does PHDown effect the PPM reading? Anyone use FoxFarm, and if so, what effect does each nutrient seem to have for you regarding PH? Okay, I think that will do it for now. Sorry there aren't any pics here. That link above has a couple, but everything is looking MUCH better since then. And I suppose if it's growing, I'm doing something right. I'll snap a few and post em soon. Again, you are all my heros.
+ rep for droping the Macguyver bomb. That's a dieing term my friend... Anyway, as for rising ph, make sure your water has been out for 24 hours to let the chlorine dissolve. pH will naturally rise as the plant grows more roots so you need to change water every week. I use tap water too. I like it. I have read that you should add a supplement like flora nectar to RO water to replace trace minerals and other complexes that would occur naturally in tap water. During flushing it is said that tap water is better then RO because it contains absorb able calcium that the plant can use to finalize tricrome development. I use general hydroponics nutes so I cant be of any help in that department. My tap water is usually around 8-8.5 ph and the ppm is usually in the 90's. Hope this helps
What's up bro? Good questions. Here's my .02 1. Tap water could very well provide some beneficial minerals to plants; however, these minerals will often be supplemented by harmful minerals and compounds such as calcite and fluoride. Also, many of these unwanted minerals will do nothing else than build up in your buckets and root systems elevating the need for flushing. In a BubbleBucket grow, you will benefit by using filtered water by reverse osmosis and/or de-ionization. Very nice filters for home use are available for as low as $150. Just let me know and I will point you in the right direction for the best ones. 2. With tap water, you will often have greater pH fluctuations than when using filtered water. You should try to keep the pH at 5.6-5.8 at all times to ensure the maximum absorption of nutrients. 3. Yes, get you some RO 4. pH down will elevate the tds of your solution but only by a few parts per million so you can pretty much disregard any tiny fluctuations. 5. I have not used FF nutrients, but in my experience with most liquid dissolved nutrients I have used, they all tend to lower the pH when added. Always adjust the pH AFTER the nutrients are added to water. To get the most out of your plants/nutrients in BubbleBuckets, use this simple but ideal method: First, use RO water free of any fungus or mildew and ALWAYS keep pH at 5.6-5.8 (this will stabilize once dialed-in). Then for the nutrients, a good starting point is whatever is recommended on the bottle for the stage of growth you are in. Then adjust the solution as follows (this is for rooted plants) example: You start with solution at 800ppm. Then after a day or two, the water level has dropped. If at this point, the tds is lower, say 600ppm, then it should have been higher to start. If the tds was higher, say 1000ppm, then it was too strong to begin and should be diluted to less than the original 800ppm. Different varieties of cannabis and in different systems and energy consumptions have different nutrient requirements so they cannot all fall into the same "ppm" needs. Once you have this dialed in for your plants, the water level should be able to drop about half without affecting the pH or tds by more than a point or two. Come by my thread and there may be more info for you there on the use of BubbleBuckets. Peace
+rep for doing the homework and asking quality questions. Doc Trich set u straight. I personally use tap water with no issues. I flush with Clearex to free up any salt concentrations before I harvest, other than that, I just adjust the ph and add it in.
Honestly I had alot more ph swings in RO water then I do with my tap water. I live in a special place with very clean tap water. I also think there is something special in my tap water that makes my buds special...
Wow, all great info. Thank you all so much! I'm at work right now and can't take too long to type, just wanted to say thanks real quick. I'll be back later today with more data, and at least 2 more questions. Oh, really, thank you all again.
I like tap water myself. I actually prefer it over RO (and I did the RO thing for a while). Oddly, I like to use chlorinated water... Anyway, use what you prefer but if you do decide to go the RO route you should pick up some calmag to add to whatever you are feeding more than likely. I am not familiar with the FF line so can't help you there, but nutrients always decrease the pH in your system.
Moved onto a new prob, may be related to the ph swings I've had, maybe not. http://forum.grasscity.com/sick-pla...-foxfarm-nuet-high-temp-pics.html#post7621268 I will start a grow journal tonight to get this all in one thread