I have had my WR male and WW female isolated with the fan on them for a while now, there is pollen every where and it looks like they have had a good time. My question being is there any length of time that they have to be together or does she give any sign that she has been successfully bred?. I'm feeling pretty lame asking but I have never have done this and I don't want to pull him if it's not time. He has plenty of pollen sacks left on him should I just collect them and get rid of him? Thanks for the help....Peace
You are gonna have seed bud, the female will be nothing but seed. You can take the male out and it will not make any difference at this point. What is WR? If they are both White widow, you will have F2 seeds which will show different phenotypes and show different traits. If they are not both White Widow and the WR stands for something else, then you could end up with a hodgepodge of recessive traits and different phenotypes from the seeds.
I'm assuming white rino, since white rino is closly related to white widow. it should be a stout white widow when your done.
The WR Is White Russian, I was just wondering how long to keep the male. I'm assuming all is good with all the pollen that he dumped on her and all but I just wanted to make sure before I pull him. She is full of bud sites so I'm thinking that he was able to do a good job on her. The russian and widow are from a seed bank so those were F1 seeds? and the seed i get from her will be F2 and not to stable right. So to get a stable strain I would breed a female of that seed to the original male??. hope that sounded right which would mean I'd better keep some pollen from him before I pull him?
You'll have some good seeds with a variety of phenos but to really stabilize what you've crossed, you need to breed a male back to the original WW female/mother. Did you clone the WW mother before pollinating her?
Yes, got 4 nice girls from her, so then I need to take a male from the seed I get and breed one of the daughters with it and then it will be stable right?.
It will not be stable, but you are on the right track. Keep one of the 4 WW clones as a mother. You will need to keep a WW mother so you always have clones to pollinate. When you grow out the F2 seed, be very selective of the male, make sure it possesses the traits and phenotype you desire. you will use pollen off the F2 male to pollinate a clone. The offspring from this you will grow and select another male to pollinate another f1 clone off the mother. With each successive offspring, you will begin to see them grow more true & uniform. Seeing as White Russian is a hybrid from White Widow, you could easily have a very true growing hybrid by the 3 rd generation. Depending on how selective you are of phenotypes, you could create your own personal twist on White Widow by selecting the phenotypes you find unique and/or desirable.
Hey thanks for all the info. It just gets a little confusing being my first breeding project and all. But I think I got it now, Thanks again!. I'll post some more pic's of my grow as it progresses.....Peace
no you wont get F2. They are F1 but you planing to cross two totally different F1. F1 x F1 = F2 is only if you cross two F1 from same parents. F is sated for Filial ..1 ,2,3,4,5 .... but if you cross two different plants it can not be F2 because that is first generation (filial) of that cross. well, your breeding project is actually crossing two plants without criteria. so, its crossing not breeding.
Good point, forgot about that. I'm curious as to the White Russian being half White Widow though..... I think a cross would create more dominant White Widow characteristics. However, seeing as there is no selection process b/c it is only a couple of plants, I may be wrong. Very good catch there ODM.
Lessismore, no doubt it gonna be lot of WW gens inside but its also possible to he find very dominant WR side (its possible but in very low %), at least AK47. but literally its new F1 generation since they doesn't come from exactly same parents Other ways it's unclear would that be an F2 of White Widow or F2 of White Russian ?
I see, very good. I seldom use F1 strains for breeding, and thought it may work the same for some reason. guess this would depend on what traits and phenotypes were dominant in the parents, so it could go either way, and without selection of many parents to choose from, it could end up going either way or just being another mixed up F1 strain with no direction. Could you possibly backcross into the F1 White Widow mother, as in breeding P1 strains, and select fathers from each successive cross to achieve some form of stablization? As I said, I only work with true breeding strains, and the few times I used F1 hybrids, it was only a mother from the F1 stock, the fathers came from true breeding stock of landraces and/or true breeding lines like NL, Skunk, and Haze.
P like Parent is very rare. Its breeded,selected and more "less" stable generation.That is marked like P. But almost all *me too* use P for parent even if that do not have any connection with unique genetics. That is why good mom or dad comes from Skunk1,Haze,NL etc etc .... its a lot of work in it. TGA, all parents are Hybrids...DNA almost all Hybrid parents etc etc But they do not offer real Skunk,Haze or ... cause they do not have right genetics to offer something like that.However, many of them got more or less nice hybrids to offer. Yes, you can backcross F1 to mom..f2 to mom...f3 to mom ... that is BX2-BS3 and BX4 what should be ibl. bx1 - BackCross bx2 - Squaring bx3 - Qubing bX4 - IBL With any backcrossing you got less and less chances to find some other pheno in next generation until they become "unique" / stable ...whatever we name it. Missing right male in any of crossing is very possible & easily, so it doesnt mean to any backcross must be successful. Its about 2+ years for right ibl.
That is how I do my F1's when I want more seed stock. I select a mother from the F1 and use fathers from successive generations to pollinate her. However I have never used 2 F1's in a cross even after getting them to grow true. I have also done this with my landrace strains. Selecting characteristics I desire to carry on to the next offspring. I was always under the impression you could not cross 2 F1's successfully and get them to grow true, so I always used the back crossing method to get them as true as possible and crossed them with more true breeding lines. 2 years is rather quick. I no longer have the room nor time to work many plants, as i did when I was heavily into breeding, growing 80-100 plants just to select one mother and one father to carry on the strain. However I have spent well over 8 yrs working my trainwreck X columbian, and all together I have about 10 yrs. in my Thai X which is 3 Thai strains grown into one strain. I may look at some of my F1 hybrids differently now, for what you are saying is it is possible to successfully cross 2 F1 hybrids and over time and careful selection have a true growing hybrid....that is if I understand what you are saying correctly. Thank you for this, all the years I been growing and hobby breeding and never knew 2 F1's cold be successfully crossed. I always thughtof them to be unstable and not of good breeding stock, plus the price of seeds prevents me from being able to grow 100's of plants in the hopes of findng the mother & father I desire.
Crossing two F1 hybrids or any other F1 is normal in nature. There is no parents selection, no selective crossing, no room control so wind can bring pollen from miles away & bring fresh genetic into already adapted genetics. ppl also brings other genetics into their villages so it must be an unexpected crossing cause its all outside. Morroco , there is impossible to grow weed without seeds. Landraces are full of regional genetics, not just from area of 10miles or so. There is only crossing of sister with brother, nature doesnt recognize backcrossing and stabilisation what we do. Landrace is example of continual crossing what without selection must be unstable genetics. Its one of reasons why landrace is pure gold for breeder and big pool of new genetics but pure shit for "standard" grower. Crossing two different F1 is possible and many new companies do exactly that. Cause that we have bombastic names just couple months or years a live and nobody after that knows or remember those crosses. Find relative new company with 10-30 crosses and you will know whats heppend there .... figure out ,new company,2+years for selection, 20 crosses ... how much time is that, but they are new ...
Yes, i do understand. i use seed stock I made on my own from old SSSC, Seed Bank, and even some of the earlier Sensi and Flying Dutchman strains, as well as landraces I acquired during trips. As for breeding, back when I had the space and could grow many plants, I would grow out strans and select males and females to make seeds from the F1 mothers. Many of the strains I possess grow true, and I have them dialed in. I have never thought of doing F1 crosses, if I used an F1, it was crossed with one of my landraces. I do see strains disappear overnight, as I have seen some just suddenly disappear. I personally have more than 2 yrs in most of my seed stock. Mostof my crosses have been work in progress for the last 10-12 yrs; I put more time into certain ones than others. It is nice to see a person that knows and understand how important some of these rare true breeding line strains are. IMKHO they are disappearing rather quickly, or being reworked so they are not even the same as they once were. TY for you insight ODM.
Thats great, you should continue work on your genetics if is that sill possible. Refresh your collection on every 5 or so years, I mean made new stock...dont allow to seeds become old. I believe 80% of SSSC stock is today on the market just by another name, do you have full SSSC list ... I miss couple names so it would be great if I can fill it up. About hybrid-polyhybrid , this is some interesting article. Its long story but i do not post this cause feminised seeds growers, hope you will find this for one of interesting info's. Chap 3: Genetics and Breeding of Cannabis Part 1/3 - Cannabis Forums Message Boards - Medical Marijuana, Cannabis Club, Dispensary, News cheers
I have the foloowing SSSC strains, some are quite old, but stored very carefully, just popped 4 of some I just got back due to the death of an old associate, they are about 23 yers old, 3 of the 4 popped and are doing well so far, it has only been a week or so. SSSC strains: M8 M27 Williams Wonder Nepali X Pakistani Acapulco Gold Pluton 2 I plan to make new stock this grow season both indoors and out. I have a Williams Wonder and 2 Seed Bank NL #2X5 going now, as well as 2 of my Thai X cross. It took me about 8 yrs to work the undesirable traits out of the Thai cross, and after 2 more yrs of very selective inbreeding, it seems to grow very true now. Very good read, I always try to keep up n strans, however many of the new ones and all these auto's and feminised ones ar enot worth much of my time. I believe Reedeker has osme good fem lines at FD, and Femaleseeds.nl is very reputable, so I try to keep up there, but most just hype and BS IMHO.