So I will be getting my kelp meal delivered Monday and am going to order some Earth Juice Catalyst. What I was wondering is if I still should need a Fish Hydrolyslate Product? It seems the EJ and kelp together would do about the same as the Fish Hy would. What do you all think? The Ej cata description reads as: For compact growth and Sweet and Heavy Yields, use Earth Juice Catalyst. This versatile and vital product for the home and farm offers an array of natural occurring enzymes, hormones, vitamins, amino acids, nutrients, sugars, plant acids and surfactants that will aid in stimulating plant growth and production. May be applied by watering in, as an additive or used as a foliar feed. Improves all soils and growing mediums. A must for all hydroponic nutrient solutions to encourage compact growth, increase yields, enhance the flavors of produce, as well as intensify the aromas of flowers and culinary herbs. Improves all synthetic as well as organic fertilizers and teas. A fantastic product for all soil, soilless, hydroponic, and hydro-organic growing. Derived From Oat Bran, Kelp and other organic ingredients. OMRI listed for organic crop production.
Fish Hydrolysate has natural amino acids, vitamins, enzymes and hormones and at the very least, is an excellent food for beneficial soil borne fungi. I will always keep a place for it in my grows. Would the EJ Catalyst be a replacement for fish hydro? Perhaps.......but personally I would rather use Fish Hydro in my AACT's because it has proven to afford me fungi dominant teas. These teas are really helpful during the flowering cycle. HTH chunk
I plan on getting some materials around and making my own AACT brewer and I know for a fact I will be using a fish hydro in it, but at the moment I do not have one I guess I could always buy the fish hydro and use it as both my foilar and tea both. This way i will already have it by the time I get my brewer. Just wasn't 100% on which I should buy. The EJ looks so yummy too thats why it caught my eye a bit. Also what is the big difference between the kelp and fish? They both seem to do the same. Say if I got kelp liquid that was cold processed or kelp and seaweed powder? Would that do about the same as the fish hydro?
Which Fish hydro do you recommend chunk? I keep reading about how some of these so called organic companies have been using ingreds which contain chemicals or make them in the breakdown process in there fish hydros and seaweed products. Now that has me a bit paranoid. Which companies in your professional opinion make the most pure or best line of organic liquid ferts and additives? I see that some of the fish hydros all have different NPK values. Does it matter what the npk value is? Here are 2 products I did find for my fish hydro. BioMarine 2-3-1 By General organics Or Green Sense Fish & Kelp Blend (Quart, Gallon) A blend of fish soluables and ocean kelp (Ascophyllum Nodosum); A natural plant food; Can be combined with apple cider vinegar and molasses. NPK: 1-1-1 Application Rate: 8 oz. per 1000 sq. ft. Frequency: Every 2-3 weeks during growing season Solution: 1 tablespoon per gallon of water Also was going to buy some EM-1 next check and since you are a master of the tea brewing and all I was wondering if you can use the EM-1 as a foilar feed or in your normal watering or is EM-1 strictly for AACT only? As always Thanks for all your words of wisdom chunk! You are better than the cats pajamas PLUS slippers! The
Downgirl, I think of the EJ catalyst as a lite molasses. I use it when spraying mostly, or in a EJ nutrient tea. As indicated the fish hydrosylate is definitely worth using. It has been called the perfect fungal food. I have used the bio marine and it worked fine, but I prefer the neptune's harvest product, and there are others that I have never used, so no opinion. Others may disagree, but I see the em1 as a soil conditioner, and not so much as needed for a growing plant. I use it to spray my compost piles, and to spray my dead leaf mulch on top of the containers soil, and for making FPE. ANd of course to make bakashi. A weak solution sprayed on the leafs may help, I am skeptical though......MIW
Downgirl, I have used Neptune's Harvest. Drammatic and Eco Nutrients fish hydrolysate. I can also attest to the quality of the Fish Hydrolysate sold at The Organic Store, an Ebay seller. They have a good soluble seaweed powder also. A gallon of their fish ferts is $29.50 delivered to your door. Part of the production process in making fish hydrolysate is the use of phosphoric acid to stop the fermentation process. That is probably the "chemicals" you are talking about and is a necessary evil in the production but is acceptable by the NOP. I would hardly fit the bill a of a "master of teas" as most of what I have learned is from GC. The info is here but if you really want to up the ante on your tea education I highly recommend reading Tim Wilson's web site Microbe Organics. His research (IMHO) is the gold standard on tea brewing as well as the specific microbes and their function in the Soil Food Web. Most of our die hard organic guys/gals here would seek out Tim for any questions they may have. He also builds/sells top tier brewers. There is a section of his site devoted to Q & A for those that want to build their own brewer. Tad at Keep It Simple is another great resource for tea information as well as brewers. Honestly, I think your knowledge curve is growing exponentially. and with a bit more research, I believe you can make and/or concoct all of the necessary components/liquid additives you'll need to complete successful grows without having to lay out a lot of hard earned money. With the basics such as kelp meal, fish hydrolysate, alfalfa meal, soluble kelp powder, neem seed meal Bio Ag TM-7 and a few other items you'll have the keys to making your own additives for cheap. As for the EM-1........I use it as a foliar occasionally and that is mainly as a PM preventative. I use it for re-conditioning my used soils and for making Bokashi Bran. It can also be used to make fermented plant extracts, but it breaks down the plant matter into the basic elements. If you want the compounds in the plant's material, it's better to use plain water only for the extract. You're asking all the right questions and it shows in the progress of your grow.....keep up the good work. chunk
Like was mentioned, the Catalyst is a molasses thing, but with much more. In my teas though, I'll either alternate the catalyst with molasses, or more often use 1/2&1/2 of each. Like 2tbl of Cat and 2tbl of molasses in 4 gallons of tea. It's cheap, but still more expensive than molasses. Kelp and Fish. Both are great ans similar, but not the same. Look at them this way. Kelp-minerals, trace and other good stuff first and a nute second. Fish- a nute first, with minerals, trace and other good stuff second. If it was one or the other, kelp would win hands down, every time. It's just that good. Both, together, are even better. Kelp meal, alfalfa meal, and worm castings are my 3 most important amendments. HTH Wet
DG, Peace and Good Vibes Sista. There is a symptom that I've suffered from many, many, times in the past, and though I have recognized it and diagnosed it correctly, I still suffer from it occasionally. It is what I term, "JIBsMs" or "JIBS" (Jack-In-The-Beanstalk mindset). We can't rush nature quickly unless we're expert with hydroponic horticulture. But even this method still requires the same exact basic processes as a organic soil grow. My point is this. There are only 16 things required to grow a healthy plant; Air, Light, Water, and the 13 plant essential elements. If one takes a "better/best" mindset approach, what I described will grow a "better" variety plant. To move into the "best" category of growing is when the supplementals are added; i.e., kelp, cytokinins, chelation products, etc. The number one consideration you must give to anything that is poured from a bottle into your soil is what is NOT listed on the label. Fertilizer laws are very, very specific and tightly governed on what can be listed on the label. There are NO laws that govern what is in the bottle that is NOT listed on the label. So, when we pick up a bottle of 'something' and it lists the NPK and what not expressed as a percentage of volume (in the case of liquid), that one Tbsp of liquid will have a minute percentage of what is listed on the label but we don't have a single clue as to what is in the Tbsp that is NOT on the label. And that is where liquid bottled nutes start to cause problems. Don't overdose your plants trying to beat JIBs. You can not do it. Stick to the basics of Air, Light, Water, Environment, Nutrients, and Medium. Supply your plants with moderate dosage of the 13 essential plant nutrients, and go easy with supplements. It is always easier to add more of 'something' when and if your plant 'tells' you it needs something. But overdosing and the resultant problems that arise after the fact are damn hard to correct in the then current grow cycle. Easy does it is the prescription for success. There is a tremndous amount of chemsitry going on in our soil grows much of which we don't even know is occurring when it does occur. Complicating that chemistry on the most simplest level of +'s/-'s (cations/anions) usually results in strange things happening, sometimes permanently (for a 120-day grow cycle) altering the soil chemistry beyond repair. Less is best and easy does it is the best (better/best) prescription to follow. It will normally and usually take a few days for a plant to respond to the last thing done to it so give it some time and let the soil chemistry occur on its time line - not yours/ours. Remember, it is NEVER the plants fault when it is not able to achieve 100% perfection for what it is genetically programmed to do. Just let it grow. Peace!
Wow thanks Chunk that means a lot coming from you! I sure hope I am learning because I am not sitting on my butt nearly 8 + hours a day reading every article, thread, post and sticky on every cannabis growing forum on the entire internet haha! Heck half of your job when it comes to growing is just learning and reading everything you can about organics. That to me has been the hardest job so far, well that and trying to learn the LIFTA technique and possum JIBS. Now that the weekend is over I will have time to go read the tea and soil food web articles. The tea aspect is really something I find very interesting. To think I can brew a tea or cook(I like that word more cause brew makes me think of beer ) and make it into a thriving habitat that is poured or sprayed onto my plant and they have a happy little village in there is so cool! Stuff like that really makes me sit back and think what a wonderful and amazing world we live in and how much we do not know about it! AHH blows my mind I agree though with both you and Possum that bottles are unreliable and we do not know everything thats in there. Thats what began to make me paranoid about buying anything from a bottle but I needed the fish hydro. I eventually ended up going with the biomarine fish hydro and I went to the kelp4less guy on ebay and also bought a Amino acid,humic,and fulvic powder and picked up some of his silicia as well. So far I have a pretty good mix of products to start making my own teas. So far I will have EWC, alfalfa meal, kelp meal, soft rock phosphate, silicia, amino acid, fulvic and humic acid, and the fish hydro. I still feel like I am missing something and I can't quite put my finger on it.. But anywho ,right there is enough to make a great tea but I still want some more products. I want to make sure they have everything they need to grow into big and beautiful girls and make sure I have all the necessary ingreds for each stage of growth.(oh yea I need molasses! found one I was missing) I know I can not rush mother nature and thats not what I intend to do but I do intend on having everything and more I need to make awesome teas and food for her to thrive on. Now all I need is to save for my new lights and possibly a bigger fan but mainly some new lights Another question about the EM-1 and the fermented plant extracts. Would you have an article on how to make the fermented plant extracts and the benefits of using them? I do not see much on the forums about it besides what you have written about it. Oh and guys do I need sulphured or unsulphured molasses? Thanks Possum and Chunk you guys are always a pleasure to learn from and I am very grateful for all the help you guys have given a little noob like me EDIT: So as for the Molasses Im thinking I need the sulphured or what would be the point in giving it molasses when there are no micro nutes..
13 essential plants nutrients got it! Macro(nitrogen ,phosphorus,potassium,magnesium, calcium and sulfur) Micro(copper, boron, maganese, iron, zinc, molybdenum and chlorine) Did I do good teacher? Now my only issue is how the hell am I going to cram all that in my feedings! So I already listed in the post above what I all have so far as much as teas go. The only things I am worried about is not having enough micronutes, but my alfalfa and kelp should contain some of those correct? Speaking of a 120 day grow cycle , I am starting to wonder if thats not my biggest plant. She is small for her age and she was the only one who survived my first month of complete and utter noobness. The other died shortly after sprouting or didn't even sprout haha! So im assuming I janked her all up.. At least I started with bagseed to learn on or else I would be screwed!
One thing we have not mentioned here is diversity. Most of know the NPK, cal ,mag routine. But i feel it is important to get your nutients and suppliments form diverse sources. Insead of say blood meal for an N source, we can cutt hat in half and use half fish meal, or alfalfa meal. When you have multiple sources you more replicate nature, and in a sense that is what we are trying to do in our indoor organic gardens. And Downgirl, you sound very bright and willing to learn, and listen. You should do very well, and you off to a good start. One thing though and it's minor. I have read recently that humic acid in teas could kill or harm microbes, so yo may want to add it seperate from teas.........MIW
There are tons of organic mineral suppliments. Two that i use are Earth Juice's micro blast and LC 10 plus seven. The LC is 10% humic acid and has 7 minor minerals. But no suppliment can top a good compost that you have nutured or have sourced. A diverse compost and or EWC should contain tons of minerals. And it is important to read labels. You may find your minerals in your suppliments. Molasses has cal and mag, as an example. It may not be enough, but it is in there. So depending on your ingredients you could have minerals........MIW
There should be enough minerals to get me by just fine actually. Just hoping I have everything covered thats all. One more thing I have been wondering about though is kelp and seaweed basically the same thing? I keep seeing seaweed podwers but they are all kelp seaweed. Since I will have Kelp meal is it still advisable to buy some seaweed powder then Edit: nevermind they are the same thing.. Just found LD post this in someone elses thread "Rate of application would be 1/2 cup to 1 c.f. of soil. Kelp meal will cover all 73 elements needed by a plant. There is absolutely no benefit from high-dosing with kelp meal or any of the powdered seaweed extract products. "
Seaweed ussually equals kelp. But you can get kelp extract (powders) or kelp meal, or liquid kelp. Generally the meal is used in soil mixes and some teas. Extracts are soluable and easily sprayed, I like and use both. No matter how you get it kelp is good stuff, but in order if I had to choose it would be kelp meal, kelp extract, and liquid kelp..............MIW
I have the kelp meal on its way actually and should be delivered by tomorrow afternoon along with my alfalfa meal and rock phosphate..
You want UN sulfured molasses. The sulfur will kill microbes and the micro nutes are in the molasses, not the sulfur. *I* don't even count the micro nutes in molasses. It's the carbs you want, to feed the microbes in the soil/tea, and I've slowed down quite a bit on my molasses use. Wet
All Kelp is seaweed, BUT, not all seaweed is Kelp. Like LD mentioned, Kelp will cover everything, seaweed might, or might not. Wet
Awesome guys! Looks like I have what I need now Thanks for all your help everybody! Also just got back from my little shopping trip Picked up some unsulphured molasses and all my goodies to make a tea brewer.. Now I am just patiently waiting for my kelp to get here tomorrow and I can start brewing up some teas.. OH YA BABY!