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bonazi fathers? and other breeding questions..

Discussion in 'Cannabis Breeding' started by shortyottomatix, May 3, 2004.

  1. Ok I've been doing a lot of thinking here lately and I think I've realized what I really want. I want to "make" a plant that is covered in trichs, short, potent, and clonable. Basically I'm thinking about crossing lowryder with white rhino just for the sake of experimentation.

    The white rhino will bring the potency and cloning traits to the mix and the lowryder will bring the shortness and quick finish that I'm looking for. So, my basic plan would be to start with a lowryder father and let him pollinate a white rhino. Here's where the problems start to arise.

    *Problems*

    I need to keep the father alive for the purposes of backcrossing. The problem is that lowryder doesn't have a vegatative cycle and it's not clonable. So I can't cut and clone and keep backcrossing female seeds to a cloned orginal father. So I don't really know what to do about this.

    Perhaps it would be better to cut a use a white rhino father to pollinate a lowryder female. Then to clone that father, and backcross that back of seeds with a clone from the orginal father? That might be the only way that this whole thing will work?

    *More problems*

    I don't know much about recessive genes and stuff like that. It's safe to say that I almost know nothing. Do you guys think it would be possible to selectively breed a plant to stay short? Not to autoflower (because I would like to scrog) but just a plant that's very short. (By short I mean about 18").... I live in an area with alot of open fields with high grass, so I could have short plants hidding but no 6' monsters.

    So I want to keep the plant short, but get rid of autoflowering. I get the hybrid to be clonable. Seeds are ok but I'd rather have clones. And I'd like for the hybrid to be medicinally potent.

    *The final question*

    Is any of this possible? If I wanted to take big bud and make white big bud I would know what I was looking for and I could probally handle that....... However with such a huge change in genetics, I'm not sure if what I want to do is possible. Keeping in mind that I can grow in an outdoors, does anybody see this getting pulled off?

    *Afterthought*

    A fully pollinated female can produce with 10,000 seeds. If I'm doing crossing and trying to find a certain few of thoose seeds to grow and then back cross, do I have to grow every seed that comes out of the pollinated female?

    How many seeds do you guys think will come out of a pollinate lowryder? A couple hundred?

    *Closing*

    Thanks guys, and like always, any help is greatly appericated.
     
  2. The white rhino will bring the potency and cloning traits to the mix and the lowryder will bring the shortness and quick finish that I'm looking for.

    http://www.seedsdirect.to/?page=sho...category_id=cc23dc4b93b3f656200a3f9adfc96112&

    I need to keep the father alive for the purposes of backcrossing.

    you can store pollon same as you would store seeds, air tight can in the fridge. shud be ok for a year.

    So I want to keep the plant short, but get rid of autoflowering. I get the hybrid to be clonable. Seeds are ok but I'd rather have clones.

    both plants have rudialis in there breeding. white rhino will auto flower if left alone, cross it with lowryder and i think your on to a loser.

    Is any of this possible? If I wanted to take big bud and make white big bud I would know what I was looking for and I could probally handle that.......

    possible but not practical. big bud isnt that much of a better yealder than white rhino, its a case of splitting hairs. a good white rhino cud easy out yeald a bad big bud. also white strains are a lot easyer to work with than bigbud.

    just my 0.02$ worth.
     
  3. well, first of all i dont really know much about breeding either... so its like the blind trying to lead the blind i guess..... but here it goes....


    im dont think that just crossing lowryder with another strain is going to produce short plants with no autoflower.... if it were that easy i think alot more people would be doing it.... i think you'd need to know more about what chromosomes (do plants have chromosomes? i think they do, i think i spelled that wrong but what the hell) that cause the autoflowering and the stockiness... and what causes the heavy trich production in your chosen donor plant (white rhino i guess) and they somehow find a way to just pull the genes or whatever from each of those plants and combine them.... im not sure if that means crossing a LR male with a WR female, then for the next gen cross the new strain with a LR male or female, or a WR male or female, or cross the new strain with itself... then doing any of those like a dozen times to try and stablize the new strain..... and to get the proper genetics to pull through....


    but like i said i dont really know a whole lot on the topic so im more or less talkin outta my ass, thats just my perspective on it.... might have to ask a horticulturist... (not neccisarily ask about marijuana, but ask what gives plants the properties that they have;) )
     
  4. Thanks for the info guys, I had forgotten about being able to store pollen... But I still have a few more q's if anybody's got some time to kill....

    Ok so lowryder x white rhino would of probally been a bad cross but I still would like to experiment with breeding. Can't you tell I was on the chess team? :D


    *Part 1*
    Let's say I cross a male ww with a female nl. The seeds the nl produced are f1 hybrids. I'm supposed to take the f1 seeds plant them, get more females and backcross the best one to the ww.... here come the questions

    What if I get like 300 seeds out of my pollinated nl? There's no why I grow out 300 seeds to look for one female to backcross, what do you breeders do in this situation? Is it possible to only pollinate a part of plant?

    Or say to harvest the top cola buds early, then in the last few days pollinate the bottom buds?

    Or I could even find the best nl female. Cut a clone from her. Put it in a seperate grow box (a tiny one) along with a ww clone... Then flower them at oh say 4" keeping them short and keeping the yeild way down. Would that work?

    *Part 2*
    What if I can't keep pollen from my ww male? I often times have people come to my house to drink beer and play cards and the such and I don't want one of my beer buddies to find the pollen.

    Would it be ok to cut clones from the original father and keep backcrossing with clones? Or would that screw the genetics of the whole operation up?

    Ok now lets say I cut a clone from my original male.... While I'm waiting for my first set of f1s to hit flowering, then select the best female to backcross, would it be possible to have a bonzai father?

    I mean trim the hell out of the tuck and give it it's own grow box and everything..... But here's where I think the problem will come in. If I keep a bonzai father in vegatative growth than it will not produce pollen sacs. I've heard once males produce pollen they pretty much loose vigour and die.

    Does anybody know if I would have any chance of reverting a male back to vegatative growth and then reflowering it later just to get a load of pollen?

    *Part3*
    If the reverting it thing doesn't work out and I really just can't keep pollen, what do you guys think about the cuttings in the seed grow box idea?

    I will break down the whole idea as briefly as possible and I have a lot of ideas floating around, so, I hope this makes sense. Out of all the stuff I just typed and asked about this is my overall plan and if you guys would tell me if I'm grossly wrong about anything or if the plan sucks or whatever. I'm far more open to criticism than I am to failure.


    *Big Room*
    I select a ww male p1 and a nl female p1. I cut clones off of both. I kill the male immediately.


    *Seed Box*
    I stick one of each clone into a small box and immediately go into flowering.


    *Male Box*
    I put another male clone into his own seperate box. I trim him and keep him as a bonzai father, in vegatative growth.


    *Seed Box*
    My selected parent's produce a small number of f1 seeds.


    *Big Room*
    I grow my f1 seeds from the seed box and wait untill I find the best looking female of the lot. I cut clones off of her.


    *Male Box*
    When the female f1 is cloned, I cut some clones from the orginal p1 father (that has been cloned only one time and is now the donor of new clones ie: the bonzai father).


    *Seed Box*
    Again my clones are placed in the seed box to produce more seeds. Except for this time it's the p1 male (clone) and a f1 nl x ww clone. (The back crossing starts).


    *Big Room*
    These new backcrossed f1s are grow out. Then the best female is cut and cloned, seed box, pollinated by p1 male, big room, selection, seed box, pollinated by p1, big room.... etc.


    And the cycle just goes on like that untill I finally have "Otto's White Lighting". I know that was an ear full guys but I really do want to know what you think?
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Just for the sake of references to what I'm talking about my "big room" is my 600 watt. That room will probally be about 3x3.

    The "seed box" will probally just be 2 plants in an aerocloner under a couple of cfl's. And the bonzai father will probally live in a different compartment of the same cab. Probally be in dirt (for root trimming) and under a couple cfl's.

    Maybee I'll just make some huge grow box with 3 chambers and a utilitiy space. That'd be boss, but I might have to scrog the big room for height reasons.


    -0tto

    P.s. watch out dr. chronic here I come :D
     
  5. Ok here's the general jist of the box

    The black circles are vents that's pulling air out of the box and into the back. I will have ae squirel fan and carbon filter for both the big room and the 2 smaller rooms will share a squirel fan and a carbon filter.

    My big room has it's co2, lights, ventataltion and all that already pretimed up and it runs by itself.

    Hell, I could probally put another chamber on the box for a little shroom cultivation.

    And I could very easily put this in my shop and make it out so look like a work bench. I mean hang some tools over it, sit some shit on top of it, and make sure it was light proof and nobody would know.

    The only thing I worry about is accidentally pollinating my scrog grow. Like getting some pollen on my hands or something and accidentally fucking up the whole thing. It'd probally be best to build to separate boxes, but this is still a cool idea.

     

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  6. i gave up half way through that... to many words....

    but.
    clones are the same plant as the plant it was taken from. just cus they dont share the same roots dont mean anything, you will get the same pollon etc.

    just grow as many seeds as you need to to find a plant with the qualitys you want, then use that. (remember to clone everything!!! BEFORE you flower)

    yes you can revert a male to veg, but remember they dont flower for as long as a female so dont hang about. also ww and wr have auto flower traits so dont count on it working... clone it b4 u flower.

    yes it is possible to only pollinate part of a plant.


    MOST IMPORTANT PART...

    start with good geans or the plants you get will be unstable. ok you will still get the odd stunning plant but you want every plant to be stunning or its not worth doing. inother words dont start with nirvana seeds. get your white widow from greenhouse seed co.

    i can understand what your trying to do and why and i wish you well,,, but.... personaly i do think your trying to walk before you can run. it take a good eye to spot a good breeding plant, even harder to spot a good breeding male. now im not trying to put you off, i think doing this will teach you a lot about mj and in the long run make you a better grower, what i am tryin to do is warn you that your just going to be crossing plants willy nilly and alltho you will get some good results you wont understand why and i doubt youd be able to do it twice never mind every time. if you cant breed a seed and know what the plants going to be like that comes from it before you plant it then it might as well be bag seed.

    if you want a good chance of doing this well then do a few grows of the plants you intend to breed with first, get to know the plant and its likes and dislikes, learn to grrow that strain to the max, then you stand a chance of knowing just what it is your breeding.

    oh and i surjest you grow a few true strains aswell so you know why the hybirds like ww do what they do.

    knowage is power. understanding is everything.

    http://www.seedsman.com/index.php?l=1
     


  7. just be sure that you work on the Scrog grow before opening up the seeded grow.... that way theres no possible way for the scrog to get pollinated... since you wont have and pollen on your hands yet ;)


    *edit: found a interesting book aswell.... http://www.booksamillion.com/ncom/books?pid=0932551599&ad=FGLBKS :D
     
  8. I want that book, it's a shame my b.a.m. doesn't sell books like that. (Believe me I check all the time). And there's no way in hell I'd order it, that's probally a flagged book or something.

    Thanks for the help guys, but thug's right I'm going to get about 4 or 5 harvest under my belt before I think about breeding.
     

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