Blue-ish / Purple-ing of leave tips and downward curling - White Russian - CFL

Discussion in 'Sick Plants and Problems' started by mgjscdhl, May 26, 2010.

  1. I'm sorry to post here again,
    I'm definitely having some problems with the gardening side of things. I wish I didn't have to but I can't narrow it down. And one solution asked what ppm was in solution... And well, thats impossible right now. It doesn't appear to be same issue as yellowing but there is curling.

    Several of the leaves are curling below. This seems to be top/middle and perhaps lower limbs. It does not seem to be new or old growth but equal between two. Some of the ends are also blue/purple. I've checked for mites or other damage caused by insects, there are no burns, etc.. I've checked all undersides of effected leaves and around stems, flowering sites. The only other growth is white pre-flowering (I beleive) starting at ground level upward and its almost 3/4 of the way to the top of plant.

    I \\ THINK \\ it could be phosphorus or phosphate deficiency according to links posted, and online guides. I beleive its not a lockout, roots issue or heat/watering...
    There is some blue/purple "blotches" on the outside edges of old leaves (spreading outward), some tips of leaves and now some newer ones. I've found two or 3 with minor discoloration ontop and one halfway down that is kind of bad. The top leaves are fairly new. The newest are clean but are SMALL (2mm) so I don't know if they'll change color or be effected.

    The temperature and r/h has stayed relatively same. Although she dropped below 70F once during night cycle and over 80F another night. The discoloration was there before hand. These are not all the topmost leaves either but for the record the plant has been lowered to keep 3" away from lamps. 4 days ago I watered with well water, ph'd to 6.0. The roots themselves do not appear rootbound but she does need a transplant soon.

    Here is my best example of my girl in her current state + one closeup of the leaf, under and top side. I hope it helps and its clear enough to show my girl.

    Attached Files:

  2. #2 Antigen, May 26, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 26, 2010
    I believe you are having nutrient lockout issues, most likely Magnesium and probably some others too. In your second picture you can see the dark green veins with light green in between, which is a good sign of Mag deficiency.

    6.0 is too low of a pH, and if you have been watering with 6.0 water for a while, I'm pretty sure that is your problem. You need to make sure your pH is 6.5-6.8.

    The soil is most likely too low of a pH as well, so you need to flush it. Run 3x as much water as you have soil (for example, if you have a 3 gallon pot, you need to run 9 gallons of water through it). This will flush out acid salts and help restore your soil to the correct pH.

    Once you have flushed give 1/2 strength nutes on the next watering since a flush will wash away a lot of nutrients. You can also add 1/2 str nutes to the last gallon or so of water that you flush with, since that final gallon will mostly stay in the soil. Make sure you measure the pH of your water after you add any nutes, since they will change the pH. Your water needs to be pH 6.5-6.8, and try to err on the high side rather than the low side if you can't measure that precisely.

    You can pick up a Cal/Mag supplement to give also, once your pH is corrected. Remember too that damage from Cal/Mag deficiency will continue even after you have fixed the problem, so don't worry if it seems to get a little worse even after you flush and correct the pH. As long as it doesn't affect the new growth or doesn't get a lot worse, you're OK.
  3. I was thinking magnesium and phosphorus or phosphate could be culprits.
    Possibly calcium/magnesium because of medium. But its hard to tell with my water (well water - no softener). I am working to stabilize her. And if she perks up perhaps distilled water with calmag, epsom salts or molasses.

    I ran my ph higher for sometime and had similar problems. So it got lowered and was ok for a little bit now. Even though I know the correct chart, it seems the peat is probably interfeering with it imho.

    I am thinking flush if it goes badly. I've gone through one before so thank for that suggestion. Its definitely a last resort and I hope it can be salvaged. I want her fixed, repotted and into flowering asap. She seems to be pre-flowering as we speak :/
  4. I know I've heard Coco Coir retains Calcium, but I don't know if peat is the same. Maybe similar.

    I just told some other dude this...I'm tryin Hygrozyme, don't know if you've heard of it. Supposed to help make available the nutrients that are there but unavailable. All my healthy plants loved it. My sick ones look so bad, I couldn't tell.
  5. #6 Antigen, May 30, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 30, 2010

    Good call, it does look a lot like Molybdenum deficiency. This is from that same guide, in the section on Mo:

    "Generally a molybdenum deficiency occurs when sulfur and phosphorus are deficient."

    Also this:

    "Soil ph that are under 5.5"

    If you've been watering with 6.0 for a long time, your soil pH could have dropped down to 5.5 or lower theoretically. I would for sure do a flush to wash out all those acid salts if I were you. You might even need to use MORE than the recommended 3X pot size worth of water if you have a really bad salt buildup. Remember the acid salts are mostly near the top of the soil so you have to push them all the way down to the bottom of the pots and out the drainholes. That might take a LOT of water. You should test your runoff pH periodically during the flush to see when it starts going back up to 6.5 or so.
  6. Sounds good, Antigen. Phos or Moly from a low PH sounds like a good diagnosis.
  7. I concur with Anitgen! Get that pH up and see if it corrects the problem. What size container are you currently using?
  8. never even heard of molybdenum!? o.o well, hygrozyme either to be honest but I guess starting out I don't know as much as the advanced growers. Hygrozyme sounds interesting. Might be something to look into. I do need to get the soil in better shape first. Thanks for the suggestion - I will keep that in mind, and written it down in my logger.

    Mmolybdenum could very well be an added problem from phos/sulf deficiency. I am working to "stabilize" the ph through soil and dolomite. I think the peat, even though the runoff tests ok, is still effecting ph and possibly locking things out. Hopefully after she's ready for transplant into a bigger pot. Currently its a 1.4L plastic pot, I think its a #4 planter.
  9. I have some fairly bad news, and this thread here will need to be closed. Those wondering what happened please look up my nickname here or white Russian cfl 2010.

    I think for every single email, msg and post for help. I hope you'll still be here when I have questions. You all have been indispensible

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