Hey guys, did anyone have experience with this BioOregon product/company? it seems like they concentrate on the feed FOR FISH(made out of fishmeal), but locally i have a product that is supposed to be for plants. is there a difference at all? is it a fish emulsion or hydrolysate? thanks
Wow! How in the hell did you find out about these guys anyway? I thought they were one of Oregon's best kept secrets - to say the least. Unfortunately their products are definitely fish food and wouldn't serve you well as a soil amendment - especially in a container situation. Now in a thermal compost pile or a worm bin you'd really have something to brag about with the final product - I couldn't recommend it enough. Especially in a thermal compost bin/pile. HTH LD
you should be accustomed to the fact Oregon is an "organic mecca" - so there's a lot of eyeballs on you guys anyway, after researching a bit more about them - i found this BioOregon Organic Fertilizer it seems like it's hydrolysate, but the strange thing is it's a 12-2-1 product , and my local version is 4-3-2. are these the same people - BioOregon & BioOregonProtein - from Warrenton,OR i'll keep searhing - there's a thought in the back of my head to create my own EM fish extract, but i'm too afraid of the smell - lacti should handle it, but the "risk" of rotting fish in my place is too scary thanks for the help
One of the main reasons that the 'P' profile is very low is over the issue of polluting waters in Oregon (and other places) with phosphates. That's why you're seeing such low phosphorus numbers - it's by design. HTH LD P.S. I've made 'fish hydrolysate' using one of the EM mother culture products (specifically SCD Bio Ag - not to be confused with the BioAg humic acid folks) and it worked out well. OTOH - liquid fish hydrolysate is less than $14.00 per gallon - 1 oz. per water is the recommend rate. The same company makes a kelp hydrolysate that has given me some of the highest level of microbes ever in AACT brews - it's really an amazing product. It's only $17.00 per gallon with the same application rate as their fish hydrolysate. It's a semi-local product, i.e. the kelp is harvested off the coasts of Canada, Washington and Oregon but it's processed down in 'Cali' which would only add to it's effectiveness and value, eh? I mean that's the epicenter of cannabis growing - Cali!!!! LMAO At those prices, I decided not to continue the homemade fish hydrolysate deal but you're on the correct path. The factory rep from Neptune's Harvest told me that this is the specific lactobacillus product that they use to make their fish hydrolysate products so you're in good company, my friend! Grow well and safely! LD
wow - that was quick if i may slip one more question(or ten) IF (and it's a BIG if) i decide to go for the home-made hydrolysate - i read somewhere i should use papaya (papain) or kiwi fruit(it'll be easier to source for me) to tenderize the "meat" of the fish - any thoughts on that? how long should it take? the "usual" couple of weeks till ph ~3.2? how about the smell? any fish specie suggestions? and the most stupid question - if i throw in the whole fish - will i get a substitute for fish meal AND fish BONE meal? fish BONE meal usually contains lots of P, right? or is it a desing issue as well? thank you SO MUCH for all the help
absolut666 Here's the basic recipe for the fish hydrolysate that I used, YMMV 30 gallons of fish parts - mostly salmon, sturgeon and halibut 30 gallons of water 5 lbs. organic kelp meal 5 lbs. of organic Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss (the Alaska Peat brand specifically) .25 lbs. of sea salt (SEA-90 would be a better choice) 5 lbs. of Gaia Green Canadian Glacial Rock dust .5 lbs. of organic live yogurt .5 lbs. of miso paste .5 lbs. fermented fish meal .5 gallon of SCD Bio Ag (available at Amazon.com) Let it brew until you hit < 3.4 pH and then stabalize with with 10 grams of phosphoric acid to stop the fermenting or else you're going to have a massive explosion if you bottle and cap it - trust me. I speak from experience! LOL HTH LD
i'll need a while to digest this info, but somehting just jumped on me - you use fermented fish meal to create a fermented fish meal? is it just to innoculate it? like it could be bran or whatever?
Sorry about that - I typed 'fermented fish meal' while thinking about fermented neem meal - not available online. You would have to make your own. The addition of fermented neem meal is NOT mission critical - just something to humor an old dog like myself. It's been claimed that I'm way too hung up on neem and karanja tree products - I plead guilty! Or something like that! LOL LD
yeah, classical freudian slip you're reading my mind - i was just about to ask you about the neem/karanja - are they about "the same" - effect wise - i see them mentioned together mostly. and is there a "huge" difference between meal and oil - or is it the concentration/price issue? one of your famous "30-years of research" explanations would be GREATLY appreciated sorry for the question avalanche - i just couldn't resist the opportunity to pick your brain p.s. tried to rep u - but "have to spread" +rep
absolut666 I'm going to try and answer your questions directly which will kill any level of legitimacy that I may have enjoyed here - but we'll see! LOL Neem and Karanja trees are almost identical. The 'main reason' that I recommend karanja oil/meal is that it isn't used as much as neem tree seed products in the neem tree industry in India. Here's a good overall review of this industry - hereThe Growing Importance of Neem (Azadirachta indica A. Juss) in Agriculture, Industry, Medicine and Environment: A Review The 'other' reason that I strongly advocate the use of both of these agents has a basis on my religious and philosophical beliefs. If I explained it to you it would definitely have you shaking your head in disbelief so let's stick to science. Please read the article that I linked to - it's probably the very best science paper that I've been able to find online. Check out the peer-reviewed links at the bottom of the article. As is usual, the links are often more informative than the actual article. Read that and I'll be more than happy to answer your questions without bringing any philosophy or Hindu tenets to the discussion. LD
your credibility here is still intact - i'm just half way through the article, but it feels like a Advanced Nutrients brochure for "weed cancer" cure , the only diff - it's actually true... i just wonder, how this wonderful plant kills only the "bad" insects? and not the pollinating ones, for example well, back to reading - won't sleep tonight, i guess - IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT
That specific observation is the genuine key to understanding how these agents work. Work through the article - there are some real gems of information that will help you become a better garden tender. Let the plants do their thing - observe with limited help and/or human intervention, i.e. let the plant health dictate your gardening program. Such crap like 'nutrient schedules' are written by the witless and uninformed, IMHO. Information in this period of time is cheap, cheap and very available to those who seek it out. Remember the basic tenet of Hindu philosophy: 'The path is the truth and the truth is the path" Pretty simple, eh? LD
my sentiment exactly, but OTOH there's A LOT of crap to sift through, especially without the help of someone like you. let me tell you - i always hated academia - but because of Teachers like you, i think there's hope... back to the article...
LumperDawgz if i may impose on you again - what are your thoughts on Neemix 45 (Azadirachtin 4.5%)? i think i can source neem/karanja cake - but i understand they are more of a "in the ground insecticide" - and i think i have white flies already - so i need a quick foliar solution. as always, any comment will be greatly appreciated p.s. re-reading the neem article - what a great stuff!!! though, most of the references are pay-per-view
absolut666 I don't think much of the pre-mixed neem products out there - any of them really. Neem oil once it's mixed has an 8 hour window for maximum benefit. Another poster, modadah, confirmed that with the neem/karanja source that he and many others use, myself included: The Ahimsa Foundation (DBA NeemResource.com) This company imports and distributes both organic neem and karnaja products, i.e. leaves, bark, oil, meals/cakes, etc. as well as some products that you could use in conjunction with these products like soap nut cake, etc. This company only sells pure organic products. The products are fair trade which is important to me. The voice on the end of the phone is very knowledgable about these products probably because her family has been involved in the neem industry in India for many years/generations. When you hit their page you'll see that at the top of the page is a link to 'Sample Packs' and these packs give the customer the biggest bank for the buck. When reviewing the pricing keep in mind that those are delivered prices - no S&H charges. Also consider that the main neem seed oil sold around the country is Dyna-Gro Neem Tree Seed Oil (which is a very good product). Definitely nothing wrong with using their product and I wanted to mention that it usually sells for $25.00 per quart - so use that as a basis of comparison with the organic product. The main advantage of using the organic neem/karanja oils/meals is that they're triple the levels of Azadirachta (1500 PPM vs 4500 PPM) on the oils and in the case of the neem seed meal/cake it's 500 PPM vs 1500 PPM - huge difference. You don't need both neem AND karanja. You don't need both the cake and the oil (though it would definitely be better). Here's a screed of mine on this from another posting. Bottom line - if you only wanted to buy a single product then I would recommend going with one of the seed meals because it gives you a wider range of options - soil amendment, foliar teas, top-dressing, etc. Using both the oil and the meal is the best option. Using both types (neem & karanja) does give you some really kewl bragging rights but probably little else at the end of the day - LOL HTH LD
thanks for the detailed response - i appreciate the advice, but since i'm not in US - my options are pretty limited. i'll try to source the neem oil/cake and try the "pre-mixed" stuff as a last resource. i apply kelp foliarly already(Acadian per your recommendation) - and my girls(hopefully) are LOVING it. in the worst case i will go with the Garlic/Ginger/Pepper FPE or something thank you for your time
Actually the garlic/ginger/pepper is probably more effective at killing mites and to a lesser degree it works as a fungicide. Lavender flowers soaked for 24-36 hours is also very, very effective at killing mites. Big time. It also has some fungicide qualities. For PM you can consider lactic acid - mixing fat-free milk is the usual suggestion. I would say that using live-culture yogurt is a better option given the lactobacillus that yogurt contains. EM is sold internationally so getting the mother culture and using that as foliar application will give you 10 lactobacillus strains to work with as well as 2 PNSB (purple non-sulphur bacteria) strains to move things along. HTH LD
sorry, what's PM? already using it - gave one foliar/soil with "pure" EM and brewing one batch of Activated and another FPE of Alfalfa/Linseed/Kelp/WheatBran/SeaSalt . also "brewing" EggShells in Vinegar related question - i think u mentioned somewhere that when preparing FPE - to use only "mother culture" EM and not AEM? is that correct? is that a question of balance/ration in the solution? is yes, than AEM is "only" good for first innoculation and Bokashi only?
PM - powdery mildew (and probably at least 25 other names around the world. Literally.) RE: EM vs AEM It is the claim by Dr. Teura Higa's group that controls the manufacturing/brewing of the EM products around the world that you cannot make an effective AEM from an earlier AEM, i.e. you must go back to the mother culture. That's their claim. It's also the claim by shampoo manufacturers that you need to apply, rinse and re-apply and rinse again to get the full benefit of their products. Double your market penetration right off the bat, eh? I remain somewhat doubtful and while I think that EM is a very fine and necessary technology to employ in a garden and for human health, it's also true that some of the claims made by various EM producers around the world are beyond the pale. Like the deal with their 'sea salt' product - it's only collected during a full moon in the South China Sea. This particular harvest period is claimed by them to maximize the mineral content in the sea salt. My response to that is pretty simple - "Blow me" LD
well.... i agree that there's a LOT of marketing bs everywhere, but for example BioDynamics(like OregonBd.com) have their "burry compost in the cow horn" or "spin the water in the barrel for 1 hour" rituals? the proof will be in the pudding/weed, i guess.