Bill Moyers: Life on the Plantation

Thanks for this post; very informative. +rep!

 

hurray for the internet and word of mouth eh? the truth well out.

the truth cannot be supressed forever, the deaper it gets pushed, just like the rubber ducky in the bath, the faster and more obvious it is when it eventually bobs back up.

 

They don't want a middle class, they're slowly getting rid of it.

90% of income belongs to 10% of the population of the U.S.
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That was an interesting speech. Thank you for posting it.

 

real good stuff. a real eye opener.

 

Slowly getting rid of it? So you're saying the middle class is shrinking? Got some numbers to back that up?

 

Ah yes, of course. Class warfare.

Socialist pablum.

And that last clause is the problem, isn't it?

Right. Most obviously because wealth is not limited. Wealth is not a pie. The fact that I have more does not mean you have less. People just don't seem to get this. It seems so basic. Adam Smith 101.

No, how about the country we currently have? You know, the one where the rich get richer and the poor get richer. Compare quality of life, relative income, use ANY MEASURE YOU WANT. The poor of America today are MUCH better off than they ever have been in the history of this country. And that's very well off indeed.

Yes, of course.

Certainly.

I hope it supports all standards of living. I hope it doesn't try to distribute the wealth "fairly" and restrict everyone to a certain set standard of living. Perish the thought! See, that "upward mobility" (up there^), that requires a certain amount of...flexibility in the "standard of living" department. Know what I'm sayin?

Definitely. Opportunity for all!

Right, but see, you don't understand about debt. Debt is good. This country was built on debt. See your post-Revolutionary history.

That sounds like a personal problem. Seriously. Manage your debt. Durr.

I suppose all those gagillion jobs that have been created over the past decade or so aren't good enough? They're all service jobs or whatever, right? Pshaw. The truth is in the census.

I'm all for efficient social programs that can be demonstrated to work. Hell, I say experiment with whatever whacky ideas people have for helping each other out. But shitcan the ones that are just money pits.

We have a HUGE, very wealthy, and very sophisticated non-governmental infrastructure for helping the disadvantaged. Its constituent organizations are both secular and religious, and they do a great job. Let's all work together and help our downtrodden and we'll all be better-off for it. But let's recognize that government is great at some things and not-so-great at others. Let's expand it where it works, but really commit to shrinking it where it doesn't.

As for that last paragraph, well, I'm all for jumping on the media at any chance. They can't get too much scrutiny and popular criticism. They hold a very sacred position in our New World Order, and it is our duty as citizens to scrutinize the media with the same vigilance we expect them to employ in their exposition of the Three Branches.

So Bill Moyers is a geriatric New Age crank (yeah, we all loved The Power of Myth; blah, blah, blah), but if he's stoning the media, I'll pick up a rock.

 

great topic, it reallly is dissapointing to see all the coorporate heads starting to take over this country while average, hard working americans get screwed over day after day... if this isn't the fall of America then I don't know what is...

 

here you go... http://www.brookings.edu/metro/pubs/20060622_middleclass.htm
http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2006/08/29/middle-class-squeeze/

it says that the number of middle class in America has shrunk from 58% in 1974 to 41% in 2000 to 33% in 2005. Sure as hell seems like it's shrinking to me... now what is most intriguing to me is the drop of 7% in 5 years contrary to the 17% drop in 26 years. The middle class has been dropping at the rate 2.15 times more than it was from 74-2000, and it only accelerates faster from then.

 

DPBWATTACK: Why do you tell lies and spread misinformation? Seriously, what is your motivation? Do you work for Howard Dean or something? What is your reason for being deceitful?

Here's what I mean:

here you go... [/quote]
So let's look at your "numbers."

This first one is actually about housing and population distribution in METROPOLITAN AREAS. An entirely different subject.

And this second one? Ha! We'll let it speak for itself below....

No. It (the first source you cited) speaks to income and housing fluctuations IN METRO AREAS.

What do you say to THIS quote, which comes DIRECTLY FROM YOUR SECOND SOURCE?

If we define the middle class as households earning between $35,000 and $75,000 a year, the middle class in America remains a huge demographic group. According to the Census report, Table A-1, the middle class made up 33.3 percent of U.S. households in 2005. That share is indeed somewhat smaller than in 1980, when 38.2 percent of households earned between $35,000 and $75,000 a year in real (inflation-adjusted) 2005 dollars.

Aha, so the middle class really is shrinking if not exactly disappearing, the alarmists might respond. But the Census numbers also show that over the past 25 years, the share of U.S. households earning less than $35,000 a year has also shrunk, from 44.5 percent in 1980 to 38.4 percent in 2005. Meanwhile, the share of households earning more than $75,000 a year has jumped from 17.4 percent to 28.3 percent.

In other words, if the middle class in America has shrunk, it is only because so many formerly middle-class households have moved to the upper-income brackets, while a significant number of households previously in the lower brackets have moved up to the middle class and beyond.

The solid economic growth of the past two decades has indeed lifted all kinds of household boats. By the most basic measure of real household income, a broad swathe of Americans are better off than they were 25 years ago—thanks to growth fueled in good measure by lower marginal tax rates, expanding trade, and a more flexible domestic economy.​

You should be ashamed of yourself, dbpwattack.

.

 

haha wow.... First of all what you just said stated that in fact you were wrong and that the middle class really is shrinking. Second of all you have to remember this is pot smoking forum and people write posts high, so don't get on me about the first source because I didn't catch metropolitan. Thirdly, please don't accuse me of lying as I stated it was shrinking when in fact you accused me of lying in that same message it stated it was shrinking... why hate so much? learn to chill and be able to discute with people not having raging debates like your friend Bill O'Reilly does.

 

Go re-read what I said dude. I never denied the middle class is shrinking. I asked you for your numbers, which I knew would clearly demonstrate that (contrary to your fear-mongering hyperbole) the contraction of the middle class is happening because the UPPER class is EXPANDING.

As predicted, your numbers did demonstrate this. Clearly and in no uncertain terms. See above.

I'm baked out of my skull right now, after a couple bowls of kief and whatever else. So sorry if you can't hang, Chief.

I never said you lied about the middle class shrinking. Your numbers were false and blatantly misleading. You say this was an error. Fine, I accept that. Whatever.

So what's left of your "argument?" Why are you trying to encourage people to hate each other? The rich people of today were the middle class people of yesterday. Just like a fair number of the middle class is comprised of former poor.

Per your numbers above, BOTH the poor and middle income brackets ARE SHRINKING, as people BECOME MORE WEALTHY.

I've got zero hate, dude. I'm fighting the hate. All this "fair distribution of wealth" crap limits personal freedom and breeds little more than suspicion and contempt. Not to mention it attempts the impossible by trying to deny the reality that is capitalism. As you've demonstrated, your arguments aren't supported by even your own data.

Don't fling out fear-mongering class-warfare nonsense without expecting to get called on it. And Bill O'Reilly? Please. Give me a little more credit than that. I could beat that idiot at tic-tac-toe.

 

"Slowly getting rid of it? So you're saying the middle class is shrinking? Got some numbers to back that up?"- sounds like denial to me

How am I encouraging people to hate??? I'm a peaceful loving stoner, hate is not in my vocabulary.

And you know my deal with capatalism- I hate it (I guess hate is in my vocab afterall), capatalism brings out greed and selfishness while lessing morality and social values which is why everyone in this country are becoming dicks. Whens the last time you were walking down a street and a stranger gave you a friendly hello?

Fear mongering what???

 

Are you happy the middle class is shrinking? Are you happy that both the middle class and poor are shrinking in numbers, while the numbers of rich are commensurately increasing? Or does that make you sad? Would you prefer everyone be in one giant middle class? Which is it? Simple question.

 

First, with a little help from Kevin Trudeau, I memorized the text of the speech. Then I had it tattooed on the inside of my eyelids. Then I ripped the audio to MP3 and put it on my iPoo, and I've been practicing night and day to try to get Bill Moyers' cadence and tone down pat. Fingers crossed!

 

one huge middle class would be a great idea. think about it. everyone has the same amount of money so people will worry less about earning that extra greenback and instead could use some of their time to do something creative and thoughtful instead of basing there whole life being miserable earning pointless money, money, money! After that we should take every single dime we put into military and national security and put it to good use like clothe and feed those who need it, and develop new technologies to help all the people in the world as well as wildlife, instead of causing destruction. That would be a great world, won't happen though.

Oh, and heres a great article on the shrinking middle class- it gives all point of views on the subject http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,143633,00.html

 

do I sense some sarcasm in there???