My point is, there has been a lot of violence carried out by religious followers. Not only that, but it is done in the name of their religion, in the name of God. All violence carried out by atheists has not been in the name of atheism. And don't go blaming misinterpretation of holy texts for this violence, because I will tear apart every major holy text that has ever been written. The Qur'an, The Bible, The Hadith, whatever, you want divinely justified evil and violence, I'll give it to you. Ignorance is bliss? I guess you didn't read the Old Testament. Just because good has been in the name of religion doesn't make it any more valid or make up for its corruptions. I absolutely love, absolutely love, how any religious follower will jump at the chance to claim all good acts and lucky occurrences as miracles, God's will, the work of the almighty. As soon as anything unfortunate happens, it's because God works in mysterious ways.
How about evil deeds are done by evil people? We have been killing Arabs for half a century in the name of democracy. Is that any better than the crusades? Or how about when God sent Joshua to slay every man, woman and child in the cities he marches his armies through? What about when God told Abraham to kill his one and only child that he fought for his entire life? How about when Lot sold out his daughters so he could run away with God's angels (and then performs acts of incest)? I could point out any number of violent stories from the Bible or related to Christianity, but that isn't the point. Religion isn't inherently good or bad, it is a tool which can be beneficial or not. Some people can use religion to do wonders for the world (like Jesus) and some people can use religion to destroy the innocence of little boys (like the Catholic church). Evil is evil. Also, Bill Maher sucks. Religulous sucked. He is an asshole political talk show host just like the rest of them.
You could say that about anyone or anything. Non religious people do it too. How about Danny Glover blaming earth quakes on an angry god, or the oil spill as an act of god?
Do you even say the pledge of allegience regularly? Couldn't you just not say "under god"? Besides - your angry at Christians for putting that in the pledge.... are you angry at the work of other Christians? The Declaration of Independence? The Constitution? Does the author's religious choice discredit his work? Society is responsible for the laws. The Majority of people WANT to live under christian values. Ever heard o the 10 commandments? See a correlation between them and our current laws? Don't like it? Peace out. I'm sure you'll find a different country with a much more atheist core.... Dude, again - you are assuming that most people are like you. In fact, most people are the opposite. The reason almost all politicians are (or SAY they are) people of faith is because their CONSTITUENCY are made up of similar people of faith! And people elect representatives that share their same values. That's the whole idea of a republic. I never got why poeple disliked ANY holiday? Only in America would we complain about Holidays. When I was in school, I didn't give a shit what holiday it was - as long as the school was off I have people coming to my door all the time. Sucks, cause my dog barks up a storm and I have to put my bong out of sight... 99% of people are solicitors. Because I am annoyed by solicitors doesn't mean I have a grievance against capitalism.... Grow up. If a stupid comment sends you over the edge - then it's obvious you are not in control of your own thoughts and/or emotions. Art imitates life, my friend. It's a firm fact. Hmm.... I'm not a preacher or anything, but maybe if the signs are that overwhelming - running away from them might not be the answer....
Why does the inspiration for violence matter? Is one violent act worse than another because it was inspired by religion? Again, I submit that Religion does not CAUSE any behavior. Humans do that ourselves. People say they know what God wants all the time - but how do you know? Are they Prophets? Or Profiteers?
I love the topic of this thread. As if Bill Maher hasn't been attacking religious people for YEARS. WTF? U guys just now noticed??? LOL Dronetek u just love to instigate shit with your threads. Every thread u make is some radical BS. Bill Maher made a movie called "Religulous" 2 YEARS ago. I agree with what h20 said in like the 3rd post of this thread. Maher wasnt his normal self in that episode. He DID seam like O'reilly on the religion issue. He has gotten to the point to where he is becoming a blowhard on the subject. I agree with him calling that chick out on his show though. She is a fake atheist trying to sell her book, and he called her ass on it, but I DO think he is wrong to say all religious people are ignorant. Thats obviously not true.
How did that story end? Do you remember? Can you point out any times where Jesus preached violence? Anti-religious types LOVE to get into the old-testament and tell the crazy stories. But you have to remember. The bible is a story. A history. History is rife with awful stuff. But that doesn't mean Christians partake in rituals of the old testament. Blaming current day Christians for the sins of people thousands of years ago doesn't make much sense. It's like blaming random white people today for slavery 200 years ago. Just doesn't hold merit.
Religion CAN make people kill. Look at these suicide bombers that are brainwashed by religion. U are saying they would have killed people even if they werent religious?
When bad things are done in the name of religion, theists are always quick to answer that the religion isn't to blame, but people are to blame. Yet they are quick to attribute positive acts to their religion. So I'm confused as to whether people are doing good/bad, or religion is doing good/bad. If it's just people who are good and doing good things then why attach any sense of morality to religion? If they are drawing inspiration from their religion to do good deeds and because of this their religion is seen in a positive light, then why doesn't the reverse apply when evil is committed?
People are brainwashed by "religion"? How about: "People are brainwashed by PEOPLE who consider themselves believers a specific religion." Religion is an idea. Not a physical weapon. Religion CAN be used as a psychological weapon but at the end of the day [I believe that] people are responsible for their own actions. Being "brainwashed" is not an excuse for violence. Nope. I'm saying the PEOPLE are responsible for the violence they commit. Not the religion they happen to believe in. I thought people were responsible for their actions no matter what.
So if religion DIDNT exist. Those PEOPLE would have talked other people into being suicide bombers just for the hell of it? I dont get what your saying Lionel
This is so far from the truth. In Islam, it is forbidden to execute a virgin whatever crimes she has committed, but if sentenced to the death penalty still a virgin, she can be raped, by the Islamic revolutionary guards, and then executed because she isn't a virgin anymore. It does show, does it not, that not just in the name of religion, but rather I would say more honestly, precisely because of faith, and the certainty that it gives of a divine endorsement, that things are done and done all the time, and threats made that no decent secularist, no convinced athiest or humanist could countenance for a second.
Ever heard of the Tamil Tigers? Amazon.com: Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism (9781400063178): Robert Pape: Books Collectivism kills, not religion.
You don't get what I'm saying because your playing the "what if" game. Unfortunate - the what ifs don't make a valid argument. what if BOMBS didn't exist? What if planes didn't exist? If they didn't we never would of experienced Oklahoma City or 9/11 right? Why don't we get rid of planes and bombs? Again - your never going to convince me that an idea is RESPONSIBLE for violence. People who carry the ideas are responsible for violence.
I never said i was angry at Christians for putting it there, I said it's there and it's offensive because I'm not a christian. Lets replace the words under god with under Buddha. Still feel the same about saying it out loud? Yes I can leave the words out but why should I have to. Religion has no place in government or national pledges. Yes I do see a correlation and it's offensive because not everyone prescribes to the christian god or tenants but hey we should ignore everyone that isn't and only espouse the views of those who agree with the Christians. I ask again. If the majority were Islamic and it were Islamic views being forced on the Christians would you still be defending it? Seriously? why do people constantly use that argument.. 'don't like it then leave.' I was born here and I have every right to be here. I am not unamerican in my views. I am just not christian. This is an EXACT example of what I was saying about how Christians want to force their views on everyone. Their attitude is....hey you don't like it, then leave. Join us or be ostracized. Thanks for the example. I never made the assumption that everyone is like me, hell even the Christians can't agree on their interpretation of the bible so you can't even agree with yourselves. Anyway, I never claimed to be the majority, if anything I'm the exception, and that means that as a minority, my rights should be protected from the oppressive majority. And I disagree with your version of a republic but that's a different conversation. Good for you, but wouldn't it be better to not have holidays around any one religion? How about just days off because people need breaks from time to time. No need to throw the Christian part in there, well there is, but it's just so that the Christians are happy that they are special. The chosen people of America. No but they aren't trying to change you, tell you that you're not wise enough to run your own life, or telling you that you aren't complete without their god either. How can you not see that it is offensive and rude too. Attacking me personally without one lick of evidence, might make you feel good and superior but it's not truthful or honest. How would you know anything about me that I haven't told you. What he said didn't send me over the edge, but what he said was wrong and I was making a point. I'm not running away, I'm standing up for my rights, and pointing out to them just how wrong they are when they come to my door, but thanks again for trying to force me into thinking I might need religion. LOL
I am playing what ifs? I am simply using commons sense. If people are killing in the name of religion I think its safe to fuckin say religion played a part in that act. If u cant see that then u are just choosing not to see it. U can debate the fact all u want, but their is REALITY and there is bullshit. U sir are spouting BS. But what I think doesnt matter. There is NOTHING that would ever sway your opinion. I truthfully believe that even if u where proved 100% wrong Lionel u would stick to your guns on this issue no matter what. I would say u are brainwashed, but u probably arent even religious. U just like to get peoples reaction when u say such ridiculous stuff.
Meh. Not going to play the "what if" game. Your asking "What if America was founded on Buddhist or Islamic principles? I don't know what if... the fact is. American was founded on Judea-Christian principles. That's just the way it is. And those principles have been the backbone of incredible achievement by our great Country. Taking Christian principles out of the USA would be like Saluting a U.S. flag with no stripes. It's not an argument or an ultimatum as you seem to interpret. No one is telling you to get out or that you don't have the right to live here It's an OPTION. If you don't like it - you HAVE THE FREEDOM to go somewhere else. It's funny watching people try to put a negative spin on individual freedom. ??? How are your rights not protected because most people happen to be believers in some form of Relgion? How are YOUR rights more important than everyone else's? I have no idea why this is even worth discussing. That's my whole point. Complaining/Arguing over HOLIDAYS? It's incredible how spoiled we are Whos forcing you to listen? Dude, you are affected WAY too much by what other people say and think. Be your own person and tell those Mormons to fuck off. It won't hurt their feelings. They get doors slammed on them all day. I tell solicitors politley that I'm not intersted but "thanks for comin by " whatever you say I was "forcing" religion on you? I thought i was just making a suggestion based off of the info YOU stated. You seem to interpret anything religion as some kind of personal attack or bombardment.
Are you willing to respond to this? This is so far from the truth. In Islam, it is forbidden to execute a virgin whatever crimes she has committed, but if sentenced to the death penalty still a virgin, she can be raped, by the Islamic revolutionary guards, and then executed because she isn't a virgin anymore. It does show, does it not, that not just in the name of religion, but rather I would say more honestly, precisely because of faith, and the certainty that it gives of a divine endorsement, that things are done and done all the time, and threats made that no decent secularist, no convinced athiest or humanist could countenance for a second.