bible peeps.

Discussion in 'Religion, Beliefs and Spirituality' started by dr_krapp, May 19, 2004.

  1. while im a little worked up, i'd like to know some things.

    Why do we have to live this life first to proove ourselfs when if god created us, surely he knows what we'll be like and how we'll live our lifes?

    Why are we physical beings? why cant be be just an engery force? surely that'd have made more sense. cos why try to keep ourselfs alive now just to live another life after?(i think i know how thats ones gonna be answered but you do it)

    and Why is there an afterlife when theres no "pre-life" how can life just begin, then never end, and this isnt really a pre-life, cos we just appeared into it? i mean it really does seem after thinking about that, that its really just an attempt to comprehend the uncomprehendable.

    isnt heaven getting over crowded?

    ho doesnt time not affect heven and hell in the same way? as it causes change, and you dont change, your there for eternaty.

    and also, why on earth would you want to live forever,you would go insane.
     

  2. those are basically the inherent problems of religion, and cant be explained, other than if you "believe and have faith in them".....which i dont

    everyone just has to make their own personal decisions about this
     
  3. You're asking spiritual questions, so I'm assuming you want spiritual answers. Because of the nature of your questions I have to answer them using Biblical doctrines.

    Now, I'm going to try to answer your questions in a satisfactory manner, but to do this I'm going to have to give a bit of background info to help out later on.

    When God created Adam and Eve, He did it for fellowship with Him. We were created as perfect beings that would never have died. BUT God wanted us to willingly choose to follow Him, so He gave us free will. He didn't want us to obey and worship Him because it was the only choice, so He had to allow us to be tempted (this is where Satan comes in).

    The reason we die now is because we chose sin. This sin separated us from God, and He couldn't let us live forever with that separation.


    Yes, He knows how we'll live our lives. But He also gives us the choice of whether or not we'll follow him. This life isn't a chance to "prove ourselves" so to say. It's more of the time where we make our choice. When we're here on earth, we choose where we'll spend eternity.


    We are physical beings because we chose sin, and this sin brought death to our bodies. When it says that God created us in His image... It wasn't referring to our physical appearance. It was talking about our soul, emotions, intelligence, etc. Why keep ourselves alive? Because we have a purpose in life. God has something planned for everyone.


    It's not really an afterlife. It's just a place your eternal spirit goes when your mortal body dies. God creates us, body and spirit. Part of us dies, the other lives on. May I add that the Bible teaches that the spirit only lives if that separation caused by sin is bridged.

    When people trust Christ as their savior, they acknowledge that they're a sinner, and because of this they're separated from a Holy God. They recognize that they can't earn their own way to heaven, and that Christ's blood was the atonement made for the sin of the world. It's a free gift that God offers to all who will receive it. When a person receives the gift, the Holy spirit lives in that person, and when God sees you, He sees a perfect being. This is why that person goes on to eternal life.

    When a person refuses this gift, and dies, he is still separated from God. His spirit goes on to hell, which is eternal death, and separation from God.


    The Bible gives the measurements of what the new heaven will be in Revelation 21:16. They are: "twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal." A furlong is 1/8 of a mile... So imagine 12,000 long, wide, and high. That can hold A LOT of people. Besides... there's only been about 50-60 billion people who have ever existed since the world began.


    Nope. Heaven and hell aren't affected by time. When you're there, you're in eternity. The only thing is is that hell gets bigger as people are added. It was originally created for satan and his angels, so there's was only enough room for them. Each time a person goes to hell, it has to grow to fit that person.


    Not if you're living with an infinite, eternal God. God's infinite, you can never come to the end of Him. There's a story in Isaiah of the seraphims. They fly over God constantly, and everytime they pass they cry "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory." They are always finding something new and wonderful about God. So no, you wouldn't go insane.

    I hope I've been able to answer your questions to your satisfaction. If you want elaboration on anything don't hesitate to ask.
     
  4. good good, im just trying to comprehend the ways you get around the questions that would nag at me constantly,

    one thing tho
    "Nope. Heaven and hell aren't affected by time. When you're there, you're in eternity. The only thing is is that hell gets bigger as people are added. It was originally created for satan and his angels, so there's was only enough room for them. Each time a person goes to hell, it has to grow to fit that person."

    If time dosnt affect it, then you cant know your there, cos you cant experience it, right? so time must have some play in it? and then my first question comes in again. So, how do we escape this paradox of the spirit?
     
  5. i don't know if i'm "getting around" these questions... i think my answers are not totally unreasonable...

    as far as time is concerned in heaven and in hell... the people who are there know that they are there. but to them time is irrevelant. time is something we have here on earth to measure the earth's rotations, and revolutions. once we reach eternity, time doesn't exist. it's just non-stop. something that's easier to think about than to try to explain. i don't know how good a job i'm doing at trying to convey my answers, so please forgive me if you don't get what i'm trying to say.

    "and then my first question comes in again. So, how do we escape this paradox of the spirit?"

    i don't quite get what you're trying to say. if you could be a little more specific, that'd be a great help.

    by the way, for you Bible/Christian bashers out there. i'm not trying to argue with anyone. dr_krapp asked some questions regarding spirituality (and i'm assuming he wanted a Christian's response based on the subject for this thread), so don't take this as an opportunity to start a debate. he asked some questions, i gave some answers. if you have some opinions that's good. if you want to start an argument, there's other threads for that purpose.
     
  6. "time is something we have here on earth to measure the earth's rotations"

    well not really, as time is a ever flowing thing, it happens everywhere you cant escape it.



    im asking out of interest, as to me, things like that nag.

    like christians, how can you beleive there is not a god when so many ppl do? and visa versa, i dont belieive any of us are 100% and we find out when we die, i dont live a bad life, in case there is a god, but i dont devote myself to him, in case there isnt.
     


  7. Maybe it's because the bible isn't true and there is no God? I don't know the truth, but following one religion sounds silly to me. Try evolution... it's not perfect yet, but the picture is becoming clearer everyday. Go do some research.
     

  8. Time will end here on earth, but it will never end in heaven and hell. Time doesn't bring change, events that happen during a period of time do. And time to God and an eternal being is different than time to someone who hasn't passed on. The Bible speaks of a thousand years being as a day to God. We have a finite mind, which makes it impossible to understand a lot of things when it comes to God. But then again, God left us His Word so we could have somewhat of an understanding of Him and His ways. If you really think about it, why would God just leave us here to figure it all out on our own? Don't you think He would want to show us the way to Him instead of leaving us in darkness?

    There's a lot of proof that God does exist. People choose to ignore the miracles, the lives that have been completely changed, the many scientific proofs of a young earth, the way the Bible was written by so many people over such a broad area, and over such a long period of time, but yet it all tells one story, and never once will you find a legitimate contradiction. How can people look at things like this and still have doubts? I just don't understand it.
     
  9. thats because, and no offence, you have a biased veiw, same as somebody arguing against it, we all have a veiw, to one side or the other, we choose to see the arguments that back up our side.

    when its completely weighed up, i'd call it 50-50
     

  10. I've said this before in numberous threads...

    My view before I became a Christian was biased AGAINST Christianity (or anything that had to do with God for that matter). I hated church, and often argued against it.

    I tell you the truth when I say I would not have become a Christian (or even believed in God) if I didn't see the proof that I have. It's not because I'm biased, it's because I've seen it with my own eyes.
     
  11. then u have a biased veiw, same diff. i dont mean it in a bad way, its just way i see it.

    I know a guy with a similar story who gives out do-nuts and gives talks in school. :p

    I dont not beleive as such, or beleive. to many arguments either way. Some proove one thing, but its easier to say miricle than big sciency words.
     

  12. or Science (evolution, beginning of universe, etc.).

    I'm reading a book right now. It says that through evidence, they've found a part of the brain that is solely devoted to spirituality/religion. Some people tame it (conditionize it with religious beliefs) and some people never use it (unused region of the brain).

    Man, it makes me wonder...


    What have you seen with your own eyes? God?

    I think if God was really serious about humans believing in the bible, he'd at least show himself for proof. All I read is prophecies which can be coherent at nearly any point in time (like Nostradamus, Oracles).

    Have you seen miracles...? I don't really understand how this has come into play in religion. People do have this abstract thing called luck. A man doesn't always have to die when a bridge collapses on him on the freeway. A baby doesn't always have to die after birthing problems. A man can get a metal rod blown through the frontal lobe of his brain without dying while working on the railroad.

    What's wrong with chance? Good things happen sometime, why must we be so pessimistic about ourselves...good can sometimes happen to us...religion has conditioned us to think worse of ourselves, and that there is something higher that we are slaves to (slaves because, sure if God gave us freewill - that's awesome. But Christianity does have a book of rules to "live" by: The Bible, which to me doesn't qualify as freewill anymore).


    You know, and it pains me to see how simple they make the "beginning" and "end" of time look, yet they can't explain the aeronautics of a space shuttle (and we've all seen successful space shuttle launches).

    Science has proven to be a never ending subject, and even sixty years ago was more complicated then we could imagine. We've seen the successes of science right before our eyes. I just don't understand why people cannot accept science even with successful science projects, right before our eyes.
     
  13. how can life just begin? life's in all of us. grab your testies and you'll find the answer..

    Cottons, you seem to know a lot about heaven and hell. have you been there yourself?
     

  14. What would you call the doctors giving you a couple weeks to live, as in: no way you're going to live, you're 100% going to die, pick out your coffin, stick a fork in you - you're done, gonna die. Then they check you out a few days later and there's absolutely no sign of whatever it was that was going to kill you. Would you consider that a miracle?

    How about an infection that would possibly have to have a large section of your jaw removed, then a week later you go back and there's no sign of the infection, and it can't be contributed to the medicine, because the tissue that's present where the infection was is so clean and pure it's like a new-born baby's. It's like there was never anything wrong with it.

    I could go on... I know of several things that are impossible to explain medically, scientifically, or by normal human logic. The only possible explaination is a miracle.

    "I think if God was really serious about humans believing in the bible, he'd at least show himself for proof. All I read is prophecies which can be coherent at nearly any point in time (like Nostradamus, Oracles)"

    He did... about 2,000 years ago. People wrote down the events that happened, and it got put into what we now know as the New Testament.

    And I have given a couple prophecies that are specific, and have only happened together at one point in history. Check my signature for the link if you haven't already been there.

    "Science has proven to be a never ending subject, and even sixty years ago was more complicated then we could imagine. We've seen the successes of science right before our eyes. I just don't understand why people cannot accept science even with successful science projects, right before our eyes."

    Well, the same can be said about true Christianity. There have been people who's lives have been undeniably changed, right before people's eyes, yet this is totally disregarded. I don't understand why people will go and rip on the Bible when they can't find a single legitimate contradiction with it's texts, and they can't prove anything to be wrong with it. It's been complete for nearly 2,000 years, but no one has been able to find any legitimate errors. Kinda weird, huh?

    And by the way, I agree with much of science. The only portion of science I don't agree with is Evolution, Uniformitarianism, Old Earth, Big Bang, etc. If you can show the scientific proof, feel free to post it in my "Why Evolution Is Wrong" thread. Evolution actually goes against many PROVEN facts of science.

    "Cottons, you seem to know a lot about heaven and hell. have you been there yourself?"

    No. Read the New Testament though. There are given accounts of heaven and hell from people who have.
     
  15. "No. Read the New Testament though. There are given accounts of heaven and hell from people who have."

    whoa. lemme get this straight. there have existed human beings who have gone to heaven/hell and back and even while they were dead, managed to write accounts of it with their limp bodies? hah, i laugh at you. hard.

    god has yet to convince me that it exists at all.
     
  16. High Cottons,
    Interesting you mentioned the 'new earth' theory. The guys who gave me bible class were a bit uncertain about this subject. I kept reading Genesis over and over again and I came to the following hypothesis:
    Nowhere in Genesis is written how long Adam and Eve lived in Paradise before the sin was committed. It just might as well have been a couple of million years. And since the concept of 'time' is not relevant as long as you're immortal, this could be the reason the Bible doesn't speak about it.
    If this would be correct a lot of other issues like: "where did Kain found his wife" and: "why was Kain so afraid of being killed by other tribes after he was banned" (where did all those other ppl came from since he and Abel were the only children of Adam and Eve?), would be cleared instantly. Very difficult for me to express this thoughts in English but I hope you can follow me and I'm curious to your opinion.
    Peace.
     

  17. People have witnessed people who have risen from the dead. They wrote it down. If you don't believe it, that's on you. What right does that give you to laugh at me? Not that I really care what you think of my beliefs... but I do consider it rude when people say stuff like that.

    By the way, Lazerus (sp?) was resurrected, and I'm sure he told people about what hell was like (he had a clear view). I'm sure Jesus knew a thing or two about hell seeing as how He was the Son of God. Paul was killed and went to heaven... I'm sure he told a few people what it was like.


    While it's true no one knows exactly how long it took between the creation and the fall, one thing is for sure. The Bible is very accurate at recording the generations of people that passed from one point in time to another. Going by the generations and how old the people were told to live for, it could be determined that it was no where near millions of years.

    No children were born to Adam and Eve before the fall (or they would have been mentioned), and chances are Cain's wife was his sister. Inbreeding could explain why we only use such a small portion of our brains.

    Also, don't forget... during those times people lived for a long time due to a protective layer of water in the atmosphere (this is talked about in Genesis, and there is also strong arguments for it scientifically). During the hundreds of years that Cain and Abel were alive there was a lot of children being born... Hence, the "other tribes."
     
  18. "He did... about 2,000 years ago. People wrote down the events that happened, and it got put into what we now know as the New Testament."

    2,000 Years ago? We know so little about the people and the way they lived 2000 years ago. I also wrote down the events that happened with me and a purple pengiun in a dream I had. Maybe in 2000 years the purple pengiun will be the new popular god.

    "Well, the same can be said about true Christianity. There have been people who's lives have been undeniably changed, right before people's eyes, yet this is totally disregarded. I don't understand why people will go and rip on the Bible when they can't find a single legitimate contradiction with it's texts, and they can't prove anything to be wrong with it. It's been complete for nearly 2,000 years, but no one has been able to find any legitimate errors. Kinda weird, huh?"
    ---
    Is Jesus equal to or one with his father?
    JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.
    JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

    ---
    Peaceful or war mongering?
    EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
    ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.
    --
    Father of Joseph?
    MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
    LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.
    ----
    "No. Read the New Testament though. There are given accounts of heaven and hell from people who have."

    Please have them send me a video tape, proving the existence of heaven and hell, and allow me to have a personal conversation with them. Oh yeah, that was 2000 years ago.
     
  19. those kindof points are why i could never truely become christian
     

  20. Trust me, what was given here is FAR from legitimate contradictions. I don't have time to explain at the moment, but I will explain these when I get the chance.
     

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