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Behaviour of Randomly Distributed Fiber-Reinforced Soil [POPCORN]

Discussion in 'Growing Organic Marijuana' started by RoyAlufo, Mar 14, 2016.

  1. #1 RoyAlufo, Mar 14, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2016
    Has anyone considered mixing popped popcorn into their soil?

    PH is 6.0 - 6.5 - Alkaline Foods | List

    Broken up the popcorn is like vermiculite. Though--Vermiculite is inert and popcorn is not. Popcorn is a fiber; does fiber not help to build the soil matrix? There is quite a bit of scientific research into the necessity of fiber in soil but does popcorn meet or exceed the quality of coco coir for example and does this addition satiate a missing element of the overall soil matrix as well as supplying a less than inert food source for soil biology? Should there be any inert substances in the soil and does popcorn perform better than vermiculite or not at all?

    Related links below:

    The second link is the general google search. You will even find a patent on the related subject matter of fiber in soil.

    Further questioning: Does the popcorn get mixed in and planted right away? Does the popcorn get mixed in for a super soil with vermiculite also? Does the fiber remain and create a more superior soil matrix? Popcorn does contain nutrients. There is fiber. This idea is a viable exploration of organic gardening and something I will experiment with on Basil or Tomatoes for example with A and B testing and will update with photos.

    Save your 1-Star ratings and put your thinking cap on. Pure popcorn with no butter etc (we live in the days where this must be stated. lol.)
     
  2. It would be interesting to see. I just couldn't imagine it being worthwhile to add if your soil is already in check.
     
  3. #3 RoyAlufo, Mar 14, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2016
    I understand the viewpoint of, "Why? My soil is already maxamillion." And I largely agree. As much as I enjoy gardening I also enjoy thinking and opening new pandora boxes. My aim is hoping this may be one.

    The question I am really pointing to is: Is the necessity for fiber in the soil vastly overlooked? And the realm of crafting our soil with a variable fiber largely unexplored? Sure lots of folks use the coir but honestly how in-depth is the topic discussed in comparison to the deep experimentation of super soils and teas? In the same way a super soil tea is a game-changer: is there a super-fiber composition? The evidence points to yes because coir does it's job and the research papers all deliver a healthy nod for the matrix; but, how much will different fiber aid one another in conjunction with the microbiology and more surface-level benefits (i.e. drainage, surfactant for different micro specie)? And I suppose this thread is for a deeper exploration of the proper fiber requirements in the soil. Surely different fibers behave differently and where there is a difference there must be synergistic quality.

    Related material: Interactions between Surfactants in Solution and Electrospun Protein Fibers: Effects on Release Behavior and Fiber Properties. - PubMed - NCBI
    Or in this case: nutrients to plant tissue/root.
     
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  4. Fiber as in non-starch polysaccharides - or do you mean something else?

    For an in-depth discussion you want to talk with a soil biologist but be aware that your postulations consists of a lot of straw-man arguments and opinions are cited as scientific fact. Not a good place to start.

    Learning the correct terminology wouldn't hurt...

     
  5. I agree.
     
  6. i think you would have much more benefit from malting the corn and grinding it to get the enzyme content from the seeds which would otherwise be destroyed by the heat from popping the corn.
    the wiki says 100grams of popcorn has 13grams of fiber. there is no way that's even remotely close to the amount of fiber in peat moss (which is regarded a better medium to use the coir btw) or coir. what makes you think popcorn could be better?
     
  7. #7 RoyAlufo, Mar 14, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2016
    I am not necessarily interested in which of the choices are better; but, rather, is there reason to believe the 2-30% of fiber source used by individuals is better built with a multitude of fiber sources understanding each contains their own unique qualities synergistically working together?

    Consider there are nearly a dozen Sorghum specie for example which all have seeds that pop like popcorn and each one their own unique makeup and responsibilities in the biology of soil and reaction to form a matrix. And as well the information in this paper:

    Polysaccharide Dispersions

    I want this to be a debate to build off of and I agree I do not know near enough but my questions keep pointing me somewhere good.

    And this information: (Antibacterial effect of phenolic compounds from peat moss and the polysaccharide chitosan)

    Forgive me if this is not enough aid to the debate as I am actively researching and postulating for the sake of postulation.
     
  8. Chitosan is a manufactured product. The compound you want to investigate is chitin which is a polysaccharide, an acetyl form of glucosamine. Bacterial action to deconstruct this material creates the enzyme chitinase and that is what you want in your soil.

    Some topics to review would be "Chitin-Salicylic Acid Pathways" and then you can review the application of malted barley which give you the enzyme, chitinase, directly. The other enzymes in malted barley powder include these important ones: amylase, arylsulphatase, β-glucosidase, cellulase, chitinase, dehydrogenase, phosphatase, protease and urease

    Now see how your research moves forward and stay off of product pages, grow store advocates. It's pointless and self-defeating.

    HTH
     
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  9. I am not sure what you mean here I just read a lot and need to read more.

    I will form a better case for my argument.
     
  10. First, what about
    ?
     
  11. #11 RoyAlufo, Mar 15, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2016
    I want to define the word: "Fiber." Perhaps stating the additive simply as Fiber offends some but please bare with me. This should get interesting for the curious of heart.

    For the purposes of this exploration, at least before a refinement of the object of study is sought, I will at this time explore this topic to build my argument:
    I realize I am not discussing the specific fiber examples in this article but aside from their test sample this is a very interesting concept for the organic gardener to create their own complex sample and my general overview of the research material so far (other papers included) suggests: everything is benefited with a more complex fiber in the soil (up to a certain point benefit then degrades or certain benefits grow to a point there must require adjustments (i.e.populations of fungi/bacteria) [I imagine at this time for example altering a hard-set 30-gallon pot setup into a 100-gallon pot and producing a similar sized plant but larger or structurally irregularly superior to otherwise "normal and acceptable" standards. Yes I wish to shake up concepts and challenge ideas. This is fun and we are at an advantage as thinkers to explore routes of study.]).

    Typically one thinks of Fiber as peat moss or coir. There are many different attributes to each Fiber and an overall greater contribution to the soil biology is evident.

    Research is continuing. I will post a detailed instruction and recipe of fiber mix into my soil mix and post results for different garden plants this season. I will be planting seed in 2-4 weeks from today and will continue forth with writing my preparatory measures as well as building the debate in a series of additional posts in this thread in order to achieve a greater understanding of the micro-details and prove or disprove a largely under-explored territory.
     
  12. #12 RoyAlufo, Mar 15, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2016
    Consider how the roots of any companion plant will alter the soil matrix and will introduce both fiber-reinforcement and several new variables of nutrient coordination both for the plants and the human caretaker: (Whatever these plants are is at this time beside the point: consider the fact of additional root introduction first and foremost)

    Consider how some roots are like fine silk with a near sponge-like web. And others are like giant roots straight down with tiny feelers extending out-word.

    It is at this time the initial exploration deviates: Does one pursue creating the fiber-reinforced soil with a living root structure from companion plants, premix the soil with a fiber-complex, or both? What nutrients will the living plants create a "wet spot" or "concentration" of and will the plants be companion enough to self-adjust soil biology or will adjustments be made and then left alone via the human caretaker and could a variety of companion plants create a self-regulated, self-nutrient-fixing cycle? The latter appears correct and even mimicking nature; but, how is this achieved and is this achieved without any aid from the human?

    Additional rock dust and tea seems always a good thing because nutrients will leave the soil no matter how much one learns.

    Has anyone planted alfalfa at the base of their plant for a living cover for example? Or even 3 separate plants for a cover? Not for the sake of covering but for the sake of "more." More growth; more synergy; happier plants. Or is it true both people and the plants are blissfully ignorant i.e. left alone in it's soil environment.

    Test samples will consist of two separate categories and 4+ samples, 30+ tests additional to the soil/super-soil mix [Vermiculite, Peat Moss, Coir, Popcorn, [other fiber source unspecified at this time (i.e.companion plant root structure)]:

    Definition LIst
    • S = Soil Mix
    • V = Vermiculite
    • P = Popcorn
    • M = Peat Moss
    • C = Coir
    • T = Companion Plant


    I.E.
    • SV = Soil Mix + Vermiculite
    • SP = Soil Mix + Popcorn
    • SVP = Soil Mix + Vermiculite + Popcorn
    • SVPM = Soil Mix + Vermiculite + Popcorn + Peat Moss

    Without Companion Planting (Mulch Cover, No Cover for each; i.e. soil mix with cover and soil mix without cover.)
    1. Soil Mix
    2. Soil Mix + Vermiculite
    3. Soil Mix + Vermiculite + Popcorn (1 Variety)
    4. Soil Mix + Vermiculite + Popcorn (2+ Varieties)
    5. Soil Mix + Popcorn (1 Variety)
    6. Soil Mix + Popcorn (2+ Varieties)
    7. Soil Mix + Vermiculite + Peat Moss
    8. Soil Mix + Vermiculite + Peat Moss + Popcorn (1 Variety)
    9. Soil Mix + Vermiculite + Peat Moss + Popcorn (2+ Variety)
    10. Soil Mix + Peat Moss + Popcorn (1 Variety)
    11. Soil Mix + Peat Moss + Popcorn (2+ Variety)
    12. Soil Mix + Peat Moss + Popcorn (1 Variety) + Coir
    13. Soil Mix + Peat Moss + Popcorn (1 Variety) + Coir
    14. Soil Mix + Popcorn (1 Variety) + Coir
    15. Soil Mix + Popcorn (2+ Variety) + Coir
    16. Soil Mix + Popcorn (1 Variety) + Coir + Vermiculite
    17. Soil Mix + Popcorn (2+ Variety) + Coir + Vermiculite
    18. Soil Mix + Coir + Vermiculite
    19. Soil Mix + Coir + Peat Moss
    20. Soil Mix + Coir
    21. Soil Mix + Peat Moss
    With Companion Planting
    Similar list, with the addition of companion plants (T) to be named later in additional post. Organization of lists on the way.
     
  13. i dont see how you can compare popcorn to peat and coco in a test. popcorn has nutritional value while all the others do not. how are you going to know any difference is made by the tiny amount of fiber in popcorn and not from the fact that the decomposing corn is feeding the soil?
     
  14. Speaking of coir vs. peat, perhaps the OP can explain the CeC variance in these 2 materials...50% is a huge difference but that's always lost on stoner soil analysis.

    Probably not would be my first guess....maybe he should start with Base Saturation and move forward to real 'soil techie' topics.

     
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  15. yeah CEC is also a huge factor in soil effectivness.

    OP have you read the no-till thread? it has tons of information on soil building.
     
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  16. This thread is ridiculous. Seriously...

    Properly built compost contains plenty of "fiber" in the form of lignin and cellulose. No GMO popcorn needed...

    From the OP... Broken up the popcorn is like vermiculite.

    How so? Vermiculite is a clay mineral. Popcorn is popcorn. :confused_2:

    What's more, how are you planning to "feed" your plants with the soil-less "supersoil" mix that you've proposed in post #12? This is the "Organic Gardening" forum, after all. Where are the "amendments" that provide nutrients after being broken down by soil biota?

    Test samples will consist of two separate categories and 4+ samples, 30+ tests additional to the soil/super-soil mix [Vermiculite, Peat Moss, Coir, Popcorn, [other fiber source unspecified at this time (i.e.companion plant root structure)]:

    You inquired about this in post #10... Antibacterial effect of phenolic compounds from peat moss...

    the answer for which is contained within the summary of the link that you provided in post # 7...

    However, the study also shows that phenolic compounds from peat moss have little potential as bacteriostatic agents.


    We must all strive to encourage reading comprehension amongst ourselves... :thumbsup:


     
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