becoming

Discussion in 'Religion, Beliefs and Spirituality' started by dirtydingusus, Jun 22, 2013.

  1. In one recent discussion or another the topic of Faith came up.... i had mentioned something about the idea of having faith.... the idea keeps coming back to mind... how conscious of it or not.... we each create the world round us with our thoughts...our beliefs.... our faith.....
    How this life is never more than one is willing to believe it is..... and never less.....
    Having faith that if i put forth the effort whenever given the opportunity.....i will always find what i need..... has carried me thru much already....

    Esseff-you responded saying something to the effect of "that's what its about....finding faith"
    That statement has come to mind many times since then..... an unpublished source i happen to have talks of "becoming" in the same way....

    "The nature, as well as the ultimate goal of these greater mysterys, was always and eternally the same : teaching the possibility of immortalizing the soul; a continuous life throughout all states and planes.
    man, the individual, was to make of himself the temple of the one god, by means of self-training and exaltation, so that the christos hidden or buried within man would be brought into a conscious reality:"the sons of men becoming the sons of god." In that one word -becoming- is hidden the mystery of the greater mysterys."
    -the mysterys of Osiris



    ......in that one word "becoming"

    "That's what its about.....finding faith"

    Man was never meant to be a copy of each other....each was always meant to make their own way home......
     
  2. Finding faith. Finding connection. Finding the feeling that works so that you raise your game and become more of who you are.
     
    Finding faith does not mean in any religious sense though, although for some it can. Finding faith is a state of mind that allows for the Universe to be felt as conscious in a way that, like the way some religious folks feel about god, Jesus, etc, and see him as the father or mother, so the universe can be seen like that, without anthropomorphising it into a deity and then a dogma, so that the effect of feeling it that way opens things up. This creates faith that the path you walk is right. That what happens in it needs to happen, and the more open you are the easier you move to where you need to go. Accepting things as they are, and having faith that they are there because they need to be. What else could be in your present but what is there?
     
    For me, accepting that what needs to happen is already in hand. That I exist on many levels, some of which only speak to me in ways my conscious mind doesn't always recognise. But they are there and they are real, and they are sending and influencing all the time so that the little me, the most dense me, feels and does what the bigger me wants. After all, there is nothing that is not universe. Everything we know and don't know exists within it. There is no difference between us, nothing is separate from anything else, other than apparently. So it makes sense that the universe, being like a parent in many ways, once opened to, can affect things in ways that can seem loving. That's why the religious always harp on about faith, even though what they choose to have faith in may not be what I do.
     
  3. @[member="esseff"] , I think you are speaking truth but I am very uncomfortable with this word 'faith'. What you are speaking of is not faith, but something else. Faith has to do with trust and unsubstantiated confidence in an idea.
    The path of gnosis, the path of we seekers is not in pursuit of faith but in pursuit of experience. We seek the Divine not so that we can imagine it better, but so that we can experience is in our own life.
     
    I don't mean to harp on semantics, but 'faith' is a word I associate with the blissfully blind.
     
  4.  
    I get that. There are levels of faith though, and for me, before one can experience the divine, one has to have an idea of what one wants, needs, or is capable of being experienced first. Faith helps with this. But faith only goes so far before the holding of it becomes what we see as religion and no longer moves you where you are to go. At some point faith is no longer required as the experience that has come from it takes over. Faith has brought you to the point where you have made the connection real enough, conscious enough, so as to move without needing to hold some idea and make it better. No idea is required as the truth is enough. The reality of your own experience is all you need to know who you wish to be, choose to be, are.
     
  5. I wanna post the song "ya gotta have faith" by george michaels.
     
  6. George Michael. Singular not plural.
     
  7. @[member="esseff"] I can live with that. Without religious Dogma we would never have evolved into beings capable of higher level thought. Its like the wood that people use to pour a foundation. The wood itself can't hold the house up, in fact after you've poured the concrete, and its dired, you remove the wood.
     
    It would have been nearly impossible to get concrete to take that shape without the mold, however flimsy the original mold may have been.
     
  8. Dogma and form are for those who require them....
    For those who cannot accept that everything they need is already within themselves....
    And for those who would rather tell others how to think....what to feel....and such...instead of taking care of their own lives.....

    These religions of symbolism and ritual are born of those still so attached to this phase of it all to let go of the physical at all.... by this i do not mean neglect it.... i mean not be ruled by it.....
    Those who still feel the need to be ruled by the physical....need a belief system which they can hold in their hands.....
    Even if it never leads them where they thought they were heading.....
     
  9. Faith..... now faith like so much..... is only what one chooses to make of it....
    Whose definition of faith one is using...also plays a huge roll...
    I have a tremendous amount of faith.....
    Yet none of it has anything to do with religion....

    I have seen people take the religion they were given and make excellent lives of it.... and i have seen those who claim religion....yet live in another way entirely....
    "given the power of reason....yet throwing it all to the wind...no solution in evolution... only the blood stained glass.... .Soul full of lies in contention...begs sacred yet worships profane...lose sight of the fact ... that your where its at.... not the stars nor the cross nor the moon...."
     
  10. I'm trying to find faith in myself.
     
     
    I don't know how many times I've read words of yours like this but this time it struck a different cord. Timing, right esseff?
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    As for me, I'm finding faith in myself at the moment.
     
  11. In that case i am glad it keeps coming up.... and that this time it found the mark.....
     
  12. But then it's you with the wrong idea of faith. Have you heard of the term doublespeak? It means that words have a connotation contrary to their true meaning, and thus destroys their true function in society. Rather than applying negative connotation to a word, a simple idea expressed through verbal expression, allow it to become a conduit for the meaning deepest within you. If you have faith, the brightest and most progressive understandings can be illumined from your own faith in the words you're using.
     
    Sometimes, if not most times, I see that arguments here stem from differences in understanding the semantics of words. People add negative connotations to words and thus dualistic thinking emerges, shrouding the truth that lies within all ideas. I hope people can get past the idea that ideas are good or bad. It's how a human uses ideas that's good and bad.
     
  13. Incredible Dirty, what you've wrote here really struck deep for me. I feel like my next step is to step away from the faith people collectively place in ideas, and instead proclaim my own faith, express my own faith in the things where I know faith will only serve to drive me forward. I feel as though people are slaves to ideas sometimes, without expressing reason in their attachment, thus they live in blind faith. But faith should never be blind.
     
    Faith is like a tool, but it is so powerful that it molds the lives of humans, it is in itself more powerful than the human, yet the human having a proper relationship with faith, can be led to the most extravagant and beautiful reality.
     
  14. My journey has brought me adamant in my belief that there is no higher power. Nothing outside of the reality we live in. What people call a religious experience brought about something else, is not something else at all, but a light, so to speak, that we have to find in ourselves. A light that drives our being, our passion, our love. Just because I think it's just a series of chemical and physical stimuli in our bodies doesn't mean I don't think it's a beautiful thing to behold. The light within some people is brighter than it is in others, some people feed it differently, and in the end that light is all our own - the culmination of every experience we go through in life. 
     
    We are all on our own path. Everything is as real as we let it be to ourselves. We're a happy accident in this strange corner of the universe, a fleeting blip of awareness on the cosmic radar and it's up to ourselves individually as to how we exercise it. I feel too many people try to look outside of ourselves for answers for life. The universe doesn't have answers, doesn't need answers. It's up to us to dive within to find our light for life.
     
  15. I love that you both just said exactly the same thing from two different perspectives......
    same realizations....expressed so differently....

    There was never ment to be just one path....

    That light inside you speak of.... that is exactly what we are ment to find and cultivate.... each in our own way....
    As that light is the part of you still connected to all that is....
    The religious idea of this god entity.... is just that.... their idea.... it is as far as they allow themselves to see...
     
  16.  
    When I read that the Hindu's say that there are many paths to kingdom of heaven, it struck a nerve in me that never stopped. Everything comes from within. It's not about books or labels or anything else, it's about finding who we really are and our facet in the gem of the universe. Beliefs and faith are irrelevant, everything is irrelevant. We're just on an infinite journey of development and then we're done. Stardust.
     
  17. Faith and belief...... are words.... used to describe some shit that comes and goes as we need it along the way....

    You want to talk about the kind of Faith you got to read books or sit it pews to find... i can't agree more... bulshit to keep small minds satisfied till the day they decide to see for themselves.... when and if that day comes....

    Each has their own path.... not to follow...
    To create.....
    No one ever needed anything outside themselves to find the way....

    Now....where it ends..... i do not claim to have feelings on that one..... not something i see for sure from here.....
    I don't feel time in the way most seem to....
    Beginnings and endings..... do not fit into my equations....
    There is no past.... the future never comes.... there is only ever now....
    Time is an illusion......
    Shit just is as is until it is what comes next....

    And still these are all just words... expressing best as i can what i feel about it all within this moment...
     
  18. Many paths....
    For this "god" by any name to have any valid credibility as "all"
    Then all paths must lead home......
    All would not leave some behind....
    This is another religious idea which fails again and again.... the idea that any would be left out....left behind....
    No there is no hell....other than the hell many create for themselves right here in this physical world of pain an suffering/separation
     
  19. #19 esseff, Jul 15, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 15, 2013
    Others are so often made to feel that their way is no good in order to validate someone else's, because the religious view makes everything that does not see it that way wrong. If it did not, the religion could not exist, as it does so by discarding everything that is not it. Instead we discard religion. Even though is has its place, because it is still part of what is, it does not encourage anyone to leave it, to seek and search within/without. It sees itself a failure if people leave the flock, because you cannot control those who are not there.
     
    As DD says, it is not about following, it is about creating, something new, unique, original, that may contain many aspects of what others have found, but does not need to. No labels, no rules, only inner ethical morality, whatever that means, being true to yourself, whatever that means, and allowing everything to become something else at anytime.
     
    It is easy for the human to think he has found and then settles down to enjoy it. He forgets that he may rest a while in the apparent certainty of what that is, while he prepares for what comes next. Unless he accepts that there is always next, he will always choose to remain where he is under the illusion that there doesn't need to be. Religion is the antithesis, for it says it has all the answers already, when in reality, it only has the answers it wants you to know.
     
    @A AnoesisOrange - yes my friend - timing is everything!
     
  20. Yes I've read George Orwell.
    Faith at the end of the day means excepting a figment of your imagination as Truth. My point is that faith is a beginning not end. @[member="esseff"] is quite right. Faith is like a mold from which we can build a more useful tool. It is far easier to experience the divine, if you start with a framework.

    I think this is why many say "I'm spiritual, but not religious " they have broken the mold of the faith they were born into.
     

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