Be The Change You Want To See

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Gorgishmork, Sep 12, 2009.

  1. :cry:








    :laughing:
     
  2. I've always been under the impression that freedom in America is great because the government DOESN'T force this nationalistic bullshit into our lives like you want. We're free to not give a shit, but it's nice to know that you want to take that away.
     
  3. you people act like im in charge of our laws

    i can have whatever damn opinion i please, im only one of he millions with a different opinion that you
     
  4. What you call a 'different opinion' most of us call a stupid opinion. But whatever tickles your pickle. :D
     
  5. Patriotism is a love and devotion to one's country. While Nationalism is loyalty and devotion to one's country.

    OK, so they both have devotion. Nothing wrong there. Loyalty + Love, not definition equals, but relevant. But do you mean to tell me that love and devotion doesn't relate to supporting our nation's product, and its colors? On top of that, you are trying to assume that nationalism is a bad thing and that myself being a Nationalist makes me a bad person? I thought you Americans loved people that did their own thing. I'm just exercising my right to freedom of assembly. HOW DARE YOU, SIR! While I don't agree with what you say, I'll defend to your death the right to say it!

    It boils down to real Americans. While you can tell me that sitting burning the American flag and singing O Canada is enjoyment in the freedoms that this country allows you, doesn't mean that it makes you a good American to do it. America, is a wonderful place. It allows you to talk bad about our President, burn our flag, and protest our government. DOESN'T MAKE YOU A PATRIOT TO ACTUALLY DO SO! No one thinks its cool to find loopholes in our laws to fuck our country. Its about pride. Its about integrity. You CAN do those things. Though you SHOULDN'T.

    Yes. I hold a grudge. I hold a grudge with 100000s of people over something that didn't occur during my lifetime. It happened to my family and countrymen. If you can't understand that then you really have nothing to stand on when it comes to a passionate topic like patriotism. 70 years is a long time, but its a lifetime. Its an even smaller part in our country's history. But because of that, 70 years, is still recent.

    It doesn't go into boycotting Japanese and German products. Those are just two major players that hold the US market strongly and happen to be former enemies. I could go on about the wonderful quality of Egyptian cottons, Sri Lanka's child labor manufacturing plants, or the high monetary and environmental expenditures that importing from other nations revolves around but I wanted to keep these issues seperate on the grounds that the conversation wasn't supposed to be carried out this indepth or lengthy.

    Well I could have said "Tom, Tom, Tom and Tom," but no one would have understood what I meant, and where I live people are named, "Paco, Jin-Su, Aref, and Mickey." Mick is a slur. Mickey is a name. For the sake of arguement, lets change his name to Patrick. Paco, Jin-Su, Aref, and Patrick. Your wanna whip out the big racial dick? Irish-German-Hawaiian-Chinese...that's admirable. I sympathise with your case. I too am multiracial. But I'm not the one playing the race card. I haven't brought race into this as an issue. I am first American born on my mother's side. I'm 3rd on my father's side. I have the new immigrant old immigrant flavor. I know the Irish, Polish, Italian turn of the century struggle. I know the post Vietnam era, Korean, Filipino, Thai struggle. Being born HERE, I know the American struggle.

    I'm almost at a loss to say anything else. Either you get it or you don't. Some people I've met would call someone stupid if they thought hanging a foregin flag on your house, as an expression of your freedom, made you a better patriot than someone with the Stars and Stripes. It's pride. It says I love MY COUNTRY. It doesn't say, I love IRELAND (a place, I don't live, work, have the sweet freedoms we have here, a place I'll never move to, vacation, visit, or even search for on wikipedia.)

    Buy something that shows support! I know, I know its all the same money, and it goes everywhere. I buy American, the guy I bought from buys Japanese, the Japanese bought it from China, and China pays royalities to Wal-Mart for dealing on their turf. It doesn't have to be that way. Imagine if all the people thought "recycling, that shit doesn't work, its all garbage eventually." There would be a shit load more garbage. You have to believe in the idea, and commit to its action, to get a response. Buying an "inferior" product may be what your thinking when you see Made In USA, but I see a rising trend that could lead to a better country.
     
  6. I can't think of Nationalism being a very positive force in history. Usually it is coupled with other negative attributes, but okay. I don't love you for doing your own thing, nor do I hate you. I don't really care what you do, personally, but you're no one to go around telling people what it is to be a true or a real American. Or a true Scotsman, for that manner.
    "Real Americans" ? Yes, it is a expression of your freedom to do such things, but it does not make one a bad, or a good American to do these things you mention. It does neither.
    I never said doing anything you mention makes one a patriot, these are merely things that don't do anything good or bad to anybody else. If you're doing wrong to other Americans, you may be a bad American in my eyes. Otherwise, you not really causing any harm to anybody, these are just things you can do. And in a free country, our government must be protested, in my mind. If you have zero people opposing the ruler, talking badly about him and not protesting the government, something's up with that.
    I'm not sure what the last sentence means. Flag-burning is legal... it's not a loop hole in law if that's what you're saying, and it doesn't "fuck our country" in any way whatsoever. If I misunderstood, my bad.
    That's very productive to hold a grudge like that. Did you not just say that this did not constitute a grudge in your previous response?
    You seem to say it's not a grudge here.

    But okay, so how far back in time do you hold grudges? Is there a statue of limitations here on grudge-holding? So many different territory have fought against your family and countrymen. Does it go back further than WWII, as I asked you several times? If you look into it, you're holding a grudge against far too many groups. At one time or another, your family & countrymen have had many "enemies", Including people of their own place of origin.
    You could have said "neighbors of yours who are recent immigrants". There's no reason to use names, really. But I don't want to argue about syntax here...
    Okay, my bad. It's close enough in my mind to raise my eyebrows.
    I did not intend to play the race card in any way whatsoever. You just said that you dislike how brainwashed Americans have become to accept a "Melting Pot" mentality who accept "all things different". I'm showing how I am a product of this so-called Melting Pot and acceptance of different things. Not my intention to bring up race, really, and I must say I regret doing so in that manner. Thanks, but you can keep your sympathy.

    No one here said it makes one a better patriot to hang a foreign flag on your house. I wasn't aware there were degrees of patriotism. Having a flag on your property doesn't make one an inherently better or worse patriot. It's a symbol, a act which has no bearing on what makes a patriot. Is there a proper rating system or scale of patriotism in this situation that I am unaware of?
    Okay, but how does it help America to encourage and support lesser goods/services by purchasing said goods? I don't believe it is a good thing to support inferiority.
     
  7. #47 UnbyJP, Sep 19, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2009
    You're assuming a flag represents a country, when in fact all it represents is its government.

    You're also assuming products represent a country, when in fact all it does it represent its corporate sector, which is often distantly separated from the common people, and, more importantly, usually in direct opposition to their interests.
     

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