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It's really not necessary, in fact, food dehydrators do the job much more safely in about the same amount of time, which I've reiterated several times here. Anything below 210 f is safe for a period of less than 20 - 30 minutes, and it takes several minutes (especially in a ceramic dish) for the material to even reach those temperatures. And when properly contained, even at temperatures just high enough to cause vaporization (not recommended), those vapors will be contained, to settle back within the material.

Decarboxylation is the process of removing the carboxyl group in the form of carbon dioxide and water vapor, essentially, drying out the glandular material. Once your material is smoke-dry, the process is already beginning, and it is possible to complete over longer periods of time in rooms with low humidity. Believe me, it doesn't take long to do once you've added some dry heat to the atmosphere! Once your material begins going more than a little brown, you've gone a little too far


edit - I should add, as I'd mentioned in earlier recipes, that I prefer to stop the decarboxylation process when I feel it is almost just-short of completion, knowing that the process continues, and the conversion is ultimately safely completed in the oil source, much like the old days; we performed the entire conversion as well as the breakdown in oil, at low temperatures, over the course of 24 hours or more. Much like a potato turns into a fry or chip over a brief period of time in very hot oil, at lower temperatures, over a longer period of time, it continues to gently release carbon dioxide and water vapor from your glandular material as it's beginning to break down into a more bioavailable form.

Hope this helps

 

Well, you and Ed have some conflicting opinions, just like you and I Personally, I tend to agree with Ed, myself... a few decades of world-wide experience pitching in at labs from the Netherlands to Australia, definitely helped me form my 'opinions'.

" Marijuana produces THCA, an acid with the carboxylic group (COOH) attached. In its acid form, THC is not very active. It is only when the carboxyl group is removed that THC becomes psychoactive. When marijuana is smoked, the THC behind the hot spot is vaporized as the hot air from the burn is drawn through the joint or pipe bowl to the unburned material. The liquid THC and other cannabinoids have a boiling point of between 180-200? C (355-392? F). Before they turn gaseous, at around 106? C (220? F), the carboxyl group is released from the molecule as carbon dioxide and water vapor.You will be extracting the THC using low heat in the commercially made Coldfinger Extractor. (They have a very interesting online catalog at www.edenlabs.org). The THC will not reach a temperature in which decarboxylation takes place. However, if you plan to vaporize or smoke the extract decarboxylation will take place as the oil is used.

​

However, it is easy to make sure all the THC is decarboxylated and is at full strength before it is extracted. Although decarboxylation takes place rapidly at 106? C, it proceeds at a more gradual pace by placing the cannabis in a room with low relative humidity and room temperature. As the temperature rises, the rate of decarboxylation increases.
Cannabis can also be placed in a food dehydrator to remove the carboxyl group. Although the heat in the food dehydrator doesn't rise to 106? C, the temperature is warm enough to promote drying and the release of the water and CO2. When the marijuana is crispy and brittle you can be assured that the carboxyl group has been removed from the cannabinoids and they are ready for extraction or removal from the plant material. "


Decarboxylation | Cannabis Culture Magazine Ask Ed Rosenthol





So yes, you absolutely can use a food dehydrator, because the science behind decarboxylation, is simply put, 'drying out' a material. You can use the dehydrator, just as you can over a longer period, use a room with very low humidity, or even desiccant sachets contained in a small wooden box.

So which is it that you prefer, exactly, since you haven't bothered to mention your ideal method? Longer periods of time at a lower temperatures, which you -just- now said would degrade already converted cannabinoids, or a breifer warmer period of time, which you apparently disagreed with in the first place

 

You do realize, that if conversion -didn't- occur during the 'fry' which (for anyone reading this) you should NEVER BE DOING TO YOUR CANNABIS... the frying, I mean. It's a big no-no. But if it didn't occur, then for all the years before, when we didn't perform the quick pre-decarb, we wouldn't have been capable of achieving an edible high, period.. you do realize that, don't you? How do you think we did it back in the 70's? In a pure oil source, over a longer period of time. Heating in an oil source, regardless of the material, evaporates the liquid the item once possessed. A drop of water won't stick around, nor will the water in a vegetable or meat.

And if conversion didn't take place in the oil gradually over time, none of the oils made from fresh plant matter, prior to the discovery of a dry decarb, would have had any effect, let alone the devastating effect they do have, when processed properly over the course of 24 hours.

So what you're saying, basically, is that no one got very high from edibles, prior to the 90's and the prevalence of the dry-decarb.

You have some reading to do!

 

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be crass, but you're just digging yourself deeper.

Just earlier, you told me -lower- temps for longer periods of time, but you're using the same and higher temps, for longer periods of time. I decarb at 210 f, as stated in my earlier recipes, and that is very suitable for hash.

You do understand that cannabinoids turn gaseous at 220f, right?

Over two full hours, that absolutely damages cannabinoids, regardless what you say; a dry heat for -that- long, damages your canna.

I've been doing this professionally for the medical community for probably a bit longer than your 'patent' which really proves nothing, as almost anything including un-finished works of mechanical fiction can be patented by request, but if the author would like to improve his methods, and use his material much more wisely and efficiently, I think he'll find much more reliable advice if he reads through this thread

Both from what I've read and from what I've seen in labs, you're simply either 'making stuff up', or trying to invent a new way to achieve the same end results, and it's a far cry from the norm.

I've never EVER seen anyone recommend a decarb for TWO HOURS at 220f, that's ludicrous, and you're advising people to degrade their material.

Please, for your own sakes, NO ONE take that advice. It is horrendously, terribly inaccurate.


It is funny, though.... I've always felt that *I* over-do it

I guess it could be worse!

 

Good luck to you with your 'new' methods, to each their own

But a patent is not proof something works, it's a 'claim'.... and you can patent something as simple as a creative way to fold a piece of paper.

 

Exactly, thank you for taking the time to read and reply, zyxwv88 And if we were to process our canna THAT heavily while dry, and then again in our oil, before even applying it to a hot or baked food source, you could guarantee the damage and loss would ultimately be even greater. It's a fragile end product as it is, and the best course to completion is gentle, and gradual.

If it were really that easy, blasting heating upon heating, we wouldn't have so many unfortunate edible-failure threads, and so many various recipes and variations on making canna butter and canna oil, we even still have some folks of both younger and older generations, who feel directly adding minced raw herb to a recipe, has the same effect as an oil, and it is probably because they either under or over processed their material at one stage or another during an attempt at making oil.

While they are still relatively if not entirely safe, I do mentally rate breads as a 'riskier' edible to bake, on the scale of cold to hot edibles, what with the higher temps and the more-dry consistency of the end product.

I suggested 45 minutes, and to remove if finished or allow a maximum of another ten, but that size loaf in the same recipe made without canna, actually calls for an hour and ten minutes. I'd suggest, for any hearty bread recipe, to stop 10+ minutes short of the normal baking time.
But even so, when you stick a meat or candy thermometer inside a just-finished loaf of bread, and especially if you were sure it was slightly under-cooked and moist inside as we discussed, the temperature within the bread rarely reads above 200f - 220f depending on the amount of water that has evaporated. Similar to how you should cook a chicken, to an internal temperature of 160 - 165 f before it's safe to consume. Chicken is of course heavier and denser than bread, so it is of course not going to have the same heat-to-time ratio as a loaf of bread would to reach certain internal temps, with the bread getting warmer somewhat faster, but it's based on the same principal, that both gradually increase in temperature internally over varying periods of time.
And when contained inside a doughy bread, with a crusty exterior, as well as your oil source, even when higher than acceptable temperatures are inadvertently reached, any possible vapor that is produced is, for some part, depending on the severity, still contained within the edible until excessive amounts of time are applied.

Oils each have different individual smoking points (edited: the 'smoking' point is different from the 'boiling' point), and if those points are surpassed, the oil itself can create a vapor 'vehicle', capable of carrying away cannabinoids that would otherwise not vaporize at such low temperatures. Even prior to the smoking point, oils can release an almost equally harmful (if inhaled or ingested) vapor. Different oils have the capacity to either retard, or enhance the potential for low-temp inadvertent vaporization. Butter, depending presumably on whether it is clarified or not smokes at 250 f - 300 f, and coconut oil whether it is virgin, or refined, can be 350 f - 450 f, and so on, and so on.

In any case that was probably much more than you wanted to read and more than you asked for, sorry about that! Thanks again for your input zyxwv88, I'm always happy to see you in here

 

Take a long weekend, find a bag, and get started on a few recipes! By the end of the weekend you should already be most if not all way there, I've done about twenty years worth of traveling and leg-work for you folks here in this thread, and it's really not hard at all once you get the basics sorted out Plus, you guys get the benefit of avoiding the great risk (and I admit, adventure!) that I went through getting where I am today

 

I prefer the powdered lecithin because it has little to no excess water-oil weight, making it somewhat more concentrated. If liquid lecithin is all you can find, it will definitely help to nearly the same degree, it works just as well except in terms of dilution Liquid lecithin's additional liquid weight is not actually compromised of much water at all, but instead it has a higher retained fat content. You'll just want to keep in mind, the total amount of oil you want as a result, and add about 50% more liquid lecithin than you would powdered knowing that it's going to contribute to your total end volume. If you're making capsules or candy, I highly recommend returning the liquid and buying the solid/powdered lecithin, to use with your solid-at-room-temp oil. For baked goods, like cakes and cookies, liquid lecithin is suitable.

So you could pierce the caps and empty them individually as you plan on using them, but as far as price/efficiency goes, you may want to return those gel caps anyhow. I'm sure you could find a better deal on a larger quantity of the powder, or even more liquid, minus the caps.



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Here's what kept me up, all last night.. I've been whipping up a nice small batch of -Strawberry Hash Wine-, some extra strength -Space Cakes-, and for April Fools day (not that it's inappropriate any other day of the year ) some great 'Wax' Hash Candy.. looks basically just like some good wax hash, but it's actually an edible, oil-based 'hard' hash, sugar-candy. Very, very potent...

I decided to make wax candy while I was digging through the freezer for single-run herb balls, from at least 4 previous batches (balls of oily plant matter I sometimes save when I know that I've only partially strained out their goodness). Usually when I'm at home, I don't bother spending too much time squeezing out the excess and I'll just toss them, but they're so easy to re-use when you're strapped for time; it's already decarbed, and the glandular material for the most part is entirely broken, and just waiting to be thinned in more oil and flushed out.

At home, I'll take a min. of 4 previous-batches worth, and use their remains to make a single potent batch of oil, for use in conjunction with a superior hash based oil. Anyway, while digging for those to use as a base oil for the space cakes, I found some old Dr Atomic Blueberry X NL full melt, I was cooking for a group (not something I do often at home) and we smoked about a gram, when I decided to use the rest for half the candy. The other half was made using POG #8 hash. They were both flavored to either compliment or enhance the natural flavors of the hash itself, blackberry and blueberry flavorings were added to the BB x NL, and a musky Pina Colada was added to the batch made with some skunky funky POG # 8.
An insight into my personal/professional life, I usually operate from a larger kitchen than the one I use for my tutorials here, and I invite patients on a referral-only basis to come learn basic edible production for personal medicinal use. I've done this on a few continents now from North America to Australia, on and off over the years, whenever I can afford to do so. As much fun as a large well-stocked facility can be, I've always truly enjoyed the hands-on approach of cooking in a small kitchen without special or automated equipment. Zipping back up now, one corner of the mouth to the other I mean.. loose lips sink ships and all that But what I've tried to do in this thread is replicate the process we perform on a much larger scale on a daily basis, but instead within the confines of a standard home kitchen. Unless otherwise mentioned, everything I use for cooking by the way has been run through a 100 micron screen. Whatever the screen catches makes a good little gift for friends in need, whatever falls through is either processed as-is, or screened and divided further.

And on to the photos.. I know that's what you come here for, my tales of canna-whimsy aren't quite enough to do the trick on their own

 

The edit feature has already closed me out of the earlier post, and where Will already has a good glycerin tincture recipe posted (and the sprays are just flavored hash tinctures), I've been dragging my heals on working up the Tinc'treats tutorial, in favor of other recipes. I'll share it soon though, I promise. Especially in the next few weeks, I'm going to begin having a little more time on my hands.


I figured since I shared this in another thread, I'll bring the 'teaser' in here as well


- Space Cake Bites with Chocolate Mango Frosting -


Made these a few weeks back, I was saving this recipe and tutorial for 4/20.... they have real mango frosting, and have also been flavored with a lemongrass hash extract. Lemongrass has higher concentrations of myrcene, the terpene responsible for the added effect when eating a mango prior to, or during a session.

I'm the sort of person who dislikes those chocolate oranges, but these taste AMAZING. They're hard to stop eating. It's easy to over-consume your meds in an edible that goes down this well.