I'm such a slacker. I've only turned my heap the one time since I built it 2.5 weeks ago lol I swear I'll do it soon... Maybe...
"A time to build up, a time to break down Turn, turn, turn..." Friggin song was made for composters! Lol
Was told that my compost recipe isn't good because 50% of it is horse manure which is going to make it too salty. So I've been turning compost that I can't use indoors. So I'm making a new pile. Wish I could complete one I can use. I've never made more than a few turns before being told I shouldn't use it because of something I've added. I've been turning this pile for 2 weeks for nothing and it can only be used outside. I have a yard of horse shit now. How come no one told me that 50% horse shit would ruin my plants?
@jerry111165 has been using horse manure in his leaf compost for as long as I can remember and hasn't reported any problems with his indoor garden AFAIK. Hopefully he'll chime in with some words of encouragement.
Too salty?? Can't use it indoors? Who on earth told you that? J Edit: "before being told I shouldn't use it because of something I've added." Compost can be made of just about anything organic. You need to use your best judgement & common sense and stop listening to all these so called experts and especially online experts. I don't believe a word of it. J
Well doesn't 50% sound like a lot? Manure is salty so it kinda made sense. Just trying figure out what's wrong with my plants and someone asked if I have been putting that type of manure on my plants not knowing it's the first time I've made this. The bottoms of my pots have looked like this since I've mixed te soil.
I did. What I said was that it could be the root of her problems. My own building experiences and soil/compost tests dictate that it's true. And just about any agricultural source that you might find warns of possible salt build up with the overuse/over-application of manure and manure based composts. And that's for outdoor application. What's more, the dynamics of soil chemistry differ greatly when one compares growing in potted plants to growing in the ground. And everyone's growing environment isn't the same, indoors or out. The nutrient profiles of homemade composts differ greatly dependent on what materials are used to make them. The physical structure of ground soils differ greatly when considering how composts might affect them. Hell, you're building soil on what is essentially beach sand, minus the salt! It's well known that most gardeners around these parts have absolutely ZERO problems with the recipes provided in this forum. Others do. Myself included. It's exactly why I've spent so much time teaching myself about soil chemistry and water quality, 'cause the so called online "experts" weren't able to help me figure out what was wrong with my grows... So what's wrong with her soil?
Couldn't tell ya. I have no idea how the compost was made or if it was mature. But I WILL tell you that I've been making and using my own compost based on leaf mold and horse manure from our own horse for years now with nothing but excellent results and will continue to do so. J
I know your not a guy that measures stuff, but do you have ANY idea what your ratios of mold to manure might be?
Then there's also the big difference between fresh manure, which I do not use. The manure in my compost is already aged before it hits the heap. J Edit: I *could* definitely see fresh manure or immature compost causing these problems, though. I really try and set my compost aside for a long time before use - sometimes a year, after its made. Compost maturity can be an issue. J
On the topic of maturing, what's your understanding (and practice) for how long "finished" compost should mature before being used? And as far as the use of your own compost for your indoor soil mixes, do you "no-till? Or do you dump it after one cycle, let sit, and then re-amend for use at a later time?
Re: "compost maturity"... In the past I have always tried to rotate my compost stock so that my heaps can sit there for a year before use. Sometimes less but that's always been my goal - a year. I've always tried to have multiple heaps made just so that I can allow it time to mature that year and it's always worked really great. Last summer I slacked and didn't make a big new heap so it screwed up my rotation and I'm k When I recently made a new heap I was kind of wishing and hoping that it might be ready for use this coming winter indoors but after turning the heap today I can really see that it's pretty much wishful thinking that I'll get to use this new heap until next summer. I HAVE rushed it in the past and have gotten less than desirable results. Every time I've allowed the year to pass, though, and then screened my compost I've been able to plant directly into it - with excellent results. You're much smarter than I when it comes to soil science and chemistry. I honestly don't have the patience that you do to learn it. I guess I jumped the gun on the salts thing. It can build up from Nitrogen, but wouldn't this be more from fresher manure and/or immature compost? I would have to think that this point would be moot once compost, even if it was pure manure compost, had time to go through the thermal process and then totally mature. I have never seen any negative results and even at lets say 30% to 35% manure that's quite a bit. Since I use so much leaf mold in my compost mix I am able to screen it and then plant directly into it - and the plants friggin love it. I also add uber amounts of comfrey to the compost mix. I haven't done the no till thing in awhile dude. No special reason why, it's just tougher in my perpetual garden due to me having different size plants going all the time. To top off this conversation here is what I think, and let me know how you feel about this way of thinking - I think that it's totally and completely fine to use even pure manure compost but it NEEDS to be mature! Like any kind of compost made from any kind of OM - IMO it doesn't matter what you're using as compost materials but it really needs the time to truly break down and once it has - truly has, we're good to go. There's so many chemical processes happening in a compost heap that until things settle in and stabilize, real issues can arise but once stabilization has occurred plants friggin thrive in there. My thoughts anyhow and I'm very open to further discussion. J
Well I read a blurb that sodium Na "steals" CEC from the soil by taking up exchange sites that would've been used for calcium. So over time your CEC is mostly salt held in the soil. From what I understood but I don't really understand soil science either. I'm just gonna buy some Baby Bu's and water only. If it's the recipe then they will grow great but if it's the water, it will be apparent right away. I hope. I can just make a manure less compost and mix it with this or just use this outside. The horse manure is fresh apples. I thought composted manure was not what to use because it doesn't have the nitrogen in the right form or something.
Out of curiosity, how old/mature was the compost used with the plants which are having some kind of issues? "The horse manure is fresh apples" This could totally be the difference in our composts. The manure I use is never fresh and is at least 6 months old before it hits my compost heaps - although I still hold that allowed to mature long enough it would be totally fine. Being older manure before it hits my heaps I don't believe it contains half the amount of Nitrogen that your fresh apples contain. If I didn't add the sheer amount of comfrey to my heap that I do, mine would have a very hard time even warming up. I believe another issue that can come from immature compost has to do with humic acids not being stable although I'm not sure of the exact science behind it. I'd love to see you set some of your compost aside until next spring and then see what a difference that makes once your heap has truly stabilized. J
I used 50/50 olyfish and premium bagged castings fresh from a worm farm. The soil mix is the 1/2 cup kelp crustacean and neem with 1 cup lime gypsum glacial rock and basalt. Mixed in August when I tore down. I started the 20 gallons a year ago and the plants grew pretty good except I had magnesium issues or whatever appeared right at transplant. That's when I was asking about magnesium I think in the soil thread last fall. The soil in these containers sat for over a month. Worms in there left a lot of fresh poo that I planted in. About 6" deep. Should've been good. Stopped pretty quick and so I didn't worry too much. I vegged in those containers for about two months. During this time I would get claw really bad but it starts with one or two leaves middle of the bush having the edges turn down and kinda claw. I pick them off and more appear. Lol all the rest look great and it so weird to see one canoe claw limp leaf. I can try to find a pic in my journal possibly later. Supposed to be with family today. I was giving them silica aloe and fulvic with almost every water at about half the dose. When I give them that the tips burn and start to curl a little. Everyone says to stop feeding them so I am now strict water only. I started noticing the water only helped and so that is how I finished the plants the last 3-4 weeks of flower. Plants were always green and praying. 5th week flower I found a couple mites on one leaf so I sprayed them with oil and the second spray 3 days later caused them to get curl and I never found any other mites. I only found one leaf with a spider mite but weird damage on the leaves. The leaves looked fine until I sprayed with oil and immediately the leaves got a ton of speckles underneath. It looked like I had a ton of bites but the top side of the leaf was gorgeous. I showed these pics in the lounge a long time ago around December. Jerry said it looked like bug damage but I didn't find any signs at all. Just the one leaf so I thought I caught them early. But as soon as the oil spray hit the leaf dots would appear of darker green. It was weird. Buds on these looked great except I got necrotic spots on the sugar leaves that ruined my hash trim. Great yield and otherwise it was a good grow. I put the pots outdoors in the rain from January till may. Planted and top dressed 1/4 cup per cuft. Plants before this were in new soil same recipe. They yellowed out some and started out slow. The soil was mixed and left to sit for almost 2 weeks before TP. It eventually started growing and the bad leaves died off. I vegged for 2 months in this soil mix up potting from seedling plug, to 1/2 gallon, to 2.5 gallon pots before going into the 20's. The whole time I had minor yellowing and magnesium yellowing with green veins. Once they got in the 20's they adjusted but took off and finally started growing ok from May to two weeks ago. The only things I saw were yellowing edges of leaves but it looked like spider mite damage without stipples. The edges get dark yellow and maybe almost a little red? I didn't take pics because I thought I just had a couple a couple leftover thrips which is why I sprayed spinosad 1.5 weeks into flower. The first thing I noticed was burnt red dead hairs. I sprayed spinosad a week earlier but this was new. I looked around a little for bugs but saw none. I started freaking I had broad mites. My aunt has the same damage, bought her clones from the same place I did when I first got spider mites. when I first got spider mites I was seeing clear mites. I looked up spider mite juveniles but they all look the same as the adults but these mites were clear and smaller. I haven't seen them since I started spraying for spider mites, tore down and cleaned. But I went over to my aunts who has them or the same problem I am having synthetic nutes tho about two or three weeks before this damage started. TMV virus started being talked about when Waktoo made that thread and basic consensus found that it was actually broad mites and russet mites damaging plants and people couldn't see them because they're so small and hide in buds. They cause the hooked leaves wak had and anything else reading about TMV. So when I saw your thread on TMV and similar damage, I thought it's either these damn bugs or a pH issue. Damage and symptoms are very similar so I wanted to rule this out before I start scoping my plants again. When I found this damage I also found football shaped clear shiny larva or something on my sugar leaves. I can't find anything else besides larva for what I saw online or can even think of. I sprayed with spinosad and now I am not finding them. I know I sound crazy but if it were broad mites I should have more damage even using pesticides and I can't find anything besides this football weird clear thing once in a while. To dig up pics I have to go page by page in my journal because the thumbnails displayed on the journal won't let me thumb through them.