So Stalin was a struggling believer. Sometimes he did and sometimes he did not, so the worst you can say is that anything you attribute to him in the name of atheism you must also attribute in the name of theism. (or easier - do neither) I'll make that compromise, will you? If you want to believe this crap, good for you and go ahead, but you should at least be willing to challenge something you want to believe. A lot of the people listed in the OP are going to be at least part-time religious. I went through quite a few sites before I felt comfortable sourcing examiner.com with the quote I had, and (annoyingly) many of the places I went had the exact same text (which was also debunking claims on Hitler and Pol Pot).
[quote name='"Postal Blowfish"']So Stalin was a struggling believer. Sometimes he did and sometimes he did not, so the worst you can say is that anything you attribute to him in the name of atheism you must also attribute in the name of theism. (or easier - do neither) I'll make that compromise, will you?[/quote] I would as well. I see him as a leader with a God complex who promoted Stalinism for Stalin. That's like a selftheist..
The same claims that the religious would make in defense against a post blaming religion for violence apply here. Always have, always will.
The history of Christianity in the Soviet Union was not limited to repression and secularization. Soviet policy toward religion was based on the ideology of Marxism-Leninism, which made atheism the official doctrine of the Soviet Union. Marxism-Leninism has consistently advocated the control, suppression, and the elimination of religion.[1] The state was committed to the destruction of religion,[2][3] and destroyed churches, mosques and temples, ridiculed, harassed and executed religious leaders, flooded the schools and media with atheistic propaganda, and generally promoted 'scientific atheism' as the truth that society should accept.[4][5] Denial.
Hmm, I really don't see your point in saying "Atheist, would you trust your government?". What does being an atheist have to do with it? Nobody should trust their government, whether they're a Buddhist, Sikh, Christian, Muslim or atheist.
Gautam Buddha and the murderer Angulimal\t Gautam Buddha initiated a murderer into sannyas--and the murderer was no ordinary murderer. Rudolf Hess is nothing compared to him. His name was Angulimal. Angulimal means a man who wears a garland of human fingers. He had taken a vow that he would kill one thousand people; from each single person he would take one finger so that he could remember how many he had killed and he will make a garland of all those fingers. In his garland of fingers he had nine hundred and ninety-nine fingers--only one was missing. And that one was missing because his road was closed; nobody was coming that way. But Gautam Buddha entered that closed road. The king had put guards on the road to prevent people, particularly strangers who didn't know that a dangerous man lived behind the hills. The guards told Gautam Buddha, "That is not the road to be used. This is the place where Angulimal lives. Even the king has not the guts to go on this road. That man is simply mad. "His mother used to go to him. She was the only person who used to go, once in a while, to see him, but even she stopped. The last time she went there he told her, 'Now only one finger is missing, and just because you happen to be my mother... I want to warn you that if you come another time you will not go back. I need one finger desperately. Up to now I have not killed you because other people were available, but now nobody passes on this road except you. So I want to make you aware that next time if you come it will be your responsibility, not mine.' Since that time his mother has not come." The guards said to Buddha, "Don't unnecessarily take the risk." And do you know what Buddha said to them? Buddha said, "If I don't go then who will go? Only two things are possible: either I will change him, and I cannot miss this challenge; or I will provide him with one finger so that his desire is fulfilled. Anyway I am going to die one day. Giving my head to Angulimal will be at least of some use; otherwise one day I will die and you will put me on the funeral pyre. I think that it is better to fulfill somebody's desire and give him peace of mind. Either he will kill me or I will kill him, but this encounter is going to happen; you just lead the way." The people who used to follow Gautam Buddha, his close companions who were always in competition to be closer to him, started slowing down. Soon there were miles between Gautam Buddha and his disciples. They all wanted to see what happened, but they didn't want to be too close. Angulimal was sitting on his rock watching. He could not believe his eyes. A very beautiful man of such immense charisma was coming towards him. Who could this man be? He had never heard of Gautam Buddha, but even this hard heart of Angulimal started feeling a certain softness towards the man. He was looking so beautiful, coming towards him. It was early morning... a cool breeze, and the sun was rising... and the birds were singing and the flowers had opened; and Buddha was coming closer and closer. Finally Angulimal, with his naked sword in his hand, shouted, "Stop!" Gautam Buddha was just a few feet away, and Angulimal said, "Don't take another step because then the responsibility will not be mine. Perhaps you don't know who I am!" Buddha said, "Do you know who you are?" Angulimal said, "This is not the point. Neither is it the place nor the time to discuss such things. Your life is in danger!" Buddha said, "I think otherwise--your life is in danger." That man said, "I used to think I was mad--you are really mad! And you go on moving closer. Then don't say that I killed an innocent man. You look so innocent and so beautiful that I want you to go back. I will find somebody else. I can wait; there is no hurry. If I can manage nine hundred and ninety-nine... it is only a question of one more, but don't force me to kill you." Buddha came very close, and Angulimal's hands were trembling. The man was so beautiful, so innocent, so childlike. He had already fallen in love. He had killed so many people... He had never felt this weakness; he had never known what love is. For the first time he was full of love. So there was a contradiction: the hand was holding the sword to kill the person, and his heart was saying, "Put the sword back in the sheath." Buddha said, "I am ready, but why is your hand shaking?--you are such a great warrior, even kings are afraid of you, and I am just a poor beggar. Except the begging bowl, I don't have anything. You can kill me, and I will feel immensely satisfied that at least my death fulfills somebody's desire; my life has been useful, my death has also been useful. But before you cut my head I have a small desire, and I think you will grant me a small desire before killing me." Before death, even the hardest enemy is willing to fulfill any desire. Angulimal said, "What do you want?" Buddha said, "I want you just to cut from the tree a branch which is full of flowers. I will never see these flowers again; I want to see those flowers closely, feel their fragrance and their beauty in this morning sun, their glory." So Angulimal cut with his sword a whole branch full of flowers. And before he could give it to Buddha, Buddha said, "This was only half the desire; the other half is, please put the branch back on the tree." Angulimal said, "I was thinking from the very beginning that you are crazy. Now this is the craziest desire. How can I put this branch back?" Buddha said, "If you cannot create, you have no right to destroy. If you cannot give life, you don't have the right to give death to any living thing." A moment of silence and a moment of transformation... the sword fell down from his hands. Angulimal fell down at the feet of Gautam Buddha, and he said, "I don't know who you are, but whoever you are, take me to the same space in which you are; initiate me." By that time the followers of Gautam Buddha had come closer and closer. They were all around and when he fell at Buddha's feet they immediately came close. Somebody raised the question, "Don't initiate this man, he is a murderer!" Buddha said again, "If I don't initiate him, who will initiate him? And I love the man, I love his courage. And I can see tremendous possibility in him: a single man fighting against the whole world. I want this kind of people, who can stand against the whole world. Up to now he was standing against the world with a sword; now he will stand against the world with a consciousness, which is far sharper than any sword. I told you that murder was going to happen, but it was not certain who was going to be murdered--either I was going to be murdered, or Angulimal. Now you can see Angulimal is murdered. And who I am to judge?"
Kush, you crack me up dude. Let's try another compromise.. Since Stalin is an atheist, all those Christians (who you claim aren't real Christians) who took part in The Crusades are actually Christians, same title you give yourself. Hell, Westboro is full of Christians by your logic. It's also hilarious how you say Hitler used Christianity to get people to follow his view point (and have yet to provide any real evidence of), kind of like how Stalin used atheism to promote his view point. So if Stalin is an atheist for using atheism, Hitler was a Christian for using Christianity.
Good stuff, my intention was to prove to you how silly and stupid that logic is. Yet many of you atheists use this logic all of the time. Get it now?
When you invite God into your life, you are religious. Unless you do something awful. Then you are an atheist who happens to believe in God. Anything else is silly logic! Why are you people not able to comprehend this obvious truth? WHY DAMN YOU WHY
Seeing as the first time this story was ever heard of was when it was published by a man born in 1931, I doubt it's a real account of Gautama Buddha. It's a work of fiction.. A fictional character..
How the hell did this turn into a stalin thread? Anyone who trusts in their government is an imbecile. The only thing that would keep gov somewhat honest is a noose. Now those were the days.
the point? man, i took some 'erbs and then started thinking about stuff , just stoned curious, i guess . and no, it is not an anti-athiest thread; just that i see more existing threads cursing religion/religious people than threads cursing politicians. thanks everyone for wonderful dialog & replies and for not turning this thread into a 'angry' thing.
Kush Lord, I don't think they're trying to say he never hated religion, I think they're saying he did struggle with the concept of god during his life. For example, some people just believe and thats it. Also, some just never believe and it doesn't bother them. It seems as if Stalin was neither of these, and was more troubled by god and religion. The greater point is still the same: No matter what your stance is on the existence of a god, you have the capacity to cause great damage in this world.
[quote name='"sunsett70"']Governments routinely murder millions i read so much crap from atheist about all the killing done in the name of religion. funny how they forget all the other stuff from history. Here's a short list of government mass murder carried out throughout history, almost always immediately following the disarmament of the public (and usually involving staged false flag events to justify the disarmament): 50+ million dead: Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) 12+ million dead: Adolf Hitler (Germany, 1939-1945) - concentration camps, civilian deaths and dead Russian POWs 8+ million dead: Leopold II of Belgium (Congo, 1886-1908) 6+ million dead: Jozef Stalin (USSR, 1932-39) 5+ million dead: Hideki Tojo (Japan, 1941-44) 2+ million dead: Ismail Enver (Turkey, 1915-22) 1.7 million dead: Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79) 1.6 million dead: Kim Il Sung (North Korea, 1948-94) 1.5 million dead: Menghistu (Ethiopia, 1975-78) 1 million dead: Yakubu Gowon (Biafra, 1967-1970) 900,000 dead: Leonid Brezhnev (Afghanistan, 1979-1982) 800,000 dead: Jean Kambanda (Rwanda, 1994) See more at: The worst genocides of the 20th Century How many of these mass murderers were 'religious' people? Where would you put leaders like Bush who perpetuated murders of local americans by staging 9/11 and then followed up with more killing of afghans and iraqs in 'retaliation' for the 'attack'? What about that idiot president in charge during vietnam when so many innocent vietnamese were murdered by the americans, in the name of 'democracy' (actually just plain ol' $$$ capitalism)? Since WW2, America's foreign policy has created more violence & destruction for mankind than the crusades ever could. all this action draped in blood and covered up with nice terms like "democracy, freedom, national interest" haha What would make an atheist hate a religious person more than a politician? those atheist who blame religion/God for all the violence/sadness/misery in the world have merely chosen a convenient target, an outlet for all their miserable feelings (caused by their own actions) accumulated in this life. [/quote] Slaughter in the name of Christ is but one reason we hate religion. Of coarse we have a.problem with all.slaughter. is this a real.question? This.post is silly
The story, perhaps. Although a similar version has been accounted for. The characters, yes, they are real. Angulimala - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[quote name='"PeruvianDank"'] The story, perhaps. Although a similar version has been accounted for. The characters, yes, they are real. Angulimala - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/quote] Yeah, I found that too. That too is fictional, in the same sense that the story of Noah's ark is fictional. Small events that get over stretched over and over as its passed down. If he was real, he more than likely killed a couple of people and reformed. The fictional is all the other details.. Turns him into a fictional, mythological person. We are trying to talk about real people here.