Government, by definition, is the monopoly on force...so anyone who was ever a leader committed immoral acts, thus not exactly the best person in the world, atheist or theist.
[quote name='"Kush Lord"'] from wikipedia: Although raised in the Georgian Orthodox faith, Stalin was an atheist. Stalin followed the position adopted by Lenin that religion was an opiate that needed to be removed in order to construct the ideal communist society.[/quote] Exactly, find me an atheist who wasn't an atheist because religion interfered with the way they wanted to control a country. If you actually research it further than a peer edited site, you'll see that many historians think he secretly studied Christianity. A communist leader wants their people's love and fear. They want to control, they can't have that with religion interfering. Maybe if there was only one religion telling the people to follow their leader unquestioningly, but they had several different religions with different sects. So again, try again.
You cannot judge a person's character by the deity they follow. OP's post seems anti-atheist, but I think in truth just anti-bad_people. Humans, by nature, want there to be a good guy and a bad guy. But as reality shows, that is rarely the case.
someone accuses atheists of violence, brings up stalin who has a religious history. another person cites wikipedia (always a pro choice) to say he was in fact an atheist. wikipedia cites a book which is making the opposite claim as the op (religious violence not a very big problem) which you'd have to pay money to verify the citation and see what the author cites (if anything) to back it up. why would this claim exist in the wiki article and not be sourced to a biography? that suggests to me that less work went into sourcing the claim than into including it in the first place. someone wanted it in there to cite. this is a textbook example of why you don't use wikipedia to source school work. we don't even know if the claim made by this book is sourced, but we do know that the book reaches a similar conclusion to the op. it doesn't seem like a stretch to imagine this citation being added to the wiki because of other conversations like this one, nor even a stretch to imagine the cited material could possibly make the same argument.
[quote name='"budsmokn420"'] Government, by definition, is the monopoly on force...so anyone who was ever a leader committed immoral acts, thus not exactly the best person in the world, atheist or theist.[/quote] Yeah, everything has more than one side. There are shitty atheist and shitty theists. There are good atheists and good theists. Smart, ignorant, stubborn, open minded, atheists and theists alike, humans. But my point is him finding a true atheist leader who committed extremely shitty acts. He is clinging to Stalin, one out of a long long list, who is in question. A communist leader who studies religion in his personal time and is against religion because its against him isn't really a true atheist. More like agnostic or closet theist. I truly would be interested in hearing about a real atheist leader doing this type of shit. Human nature interests me and it'd be something worth while to read over, not some communist fuck after personal gain.
He's as atheist and anti-religious as can be. You're trying too hard. I can also say Hitler or many other mass murderers only claimed to be religious to gain support of the masses, but you'de just deny that of course. I can also say that Hitlers reason to slaughter jews wasnt because of religion, but you'de also deny that.
[quote name='"Kush Lord"'] He's as atheist and anti-religious as can be. You're trying too hard.[/quote] No, you are. You clinging to one glimmer of hope at trying to find an atheist who committed acts of terror and horror in the name of atheism. My interest is aimed at something the research and learn about, if Stalin was a true atheist, I'd be all over it. Your interest is trying to find an atheist with the purpose of negating the fact that leaders who committed violent acts were religious.
[quote name='"Kush Lord"']I could also say Hitler or many other mass murderers only claimed to be religious to gain support of the masses, but you'de just deny that of course.[/quote] I'm sure there's an evil atheist conspiracy covering up these facts..
Not clinging to anything, just letting you know what the sources say. You're the one in denial. I can also say Hitler or many other mass murderers only claimed to be religious to gain support of the masses, but you'de just deny that of course. I can also say that Hitlers reason to slaughter jews wasnt because of religion, but you'de also deny that.
Is atheism the answer? Part 3 - National freethought | Examiner.com I find a biographer far more credible than some guy who is making an argument. Especially when the argument is in support of religion against charges of violence, and when supposedly Stalin was an atheist would probably did not need to be mentioned in the book if not to parrot this claim that atheists are evil mass murdering assholes.
Stalin wanted to get rid of religion and had atheism taught in schools. Thats the definition of a hardcore atheist to me, deny it all you want. Its cute. I can also show many sources that say Hitler and many other mass murderers only faked their religion to gain support, but you guys would be first to deny it.
[quote name='"Kush Lord"']Stalin wanted to get rid of religion and taught atheism in schools. Thats the definition of a hardcore atheist to me, deny it all you want. Its cute.[/quote] Cause he totally taught evolution and not that he is their leader and worthy of their praise in schools..
TIL there has never been a hypocrite ever, because Kush Lord can't possibly see how someone could be hypocritical about religion. Of all things, religion! No way man. Can you condescend to me some more while pretending you knew Stalin better than his biographers? I'm getting good gut exercise out of it. ^ he knows what he's talking about. Stalin may have been a struggling Christian, but he wanted the state to be the religion of the masses and you can't have competing religions if you want to achieve that.
You guys are the ones claiming that he secretly was religious, as if you were married to the guy. Like I said, trying too hard. The guy wanted to wipe out religion and had atheism taught in schools, what more evidence do you need.
[quote name='"Kush Lord"']I can also show many sources that say Hitler and many other mass murderers only faked their religion to gain support, but you guys would be first to deny it.[/quote] Say it a fourth fucking time and stil not do it.. You're only not posting because you know this proof is going to come from another brainwashed believer and be proven wrong.
You're pretending to know him better than his biographers because you are desperate to keep holding onto the "fact" of his atheism as if being wrong would suddenly mean that no atheist has ever killed a person ever. Me? All I did was decide we could do with a better source than fucking Wikipedia. So when you say "trying too hard" that's a bit of a projection.
Wants all religion wiped out and have atheism taught in schools = not atheist. lol, my sides. Keep trying.
"You know, they are fooling us, there is no God...all this talk about God is sheer nonsense" - Stalin
Wants something for others but not for himself = hypocrite. Involving God in your life and decisions = religious. You cite 1940, I cite 1941.
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/Stalins Russia.htm I find the fourth paragraph below his picture pretty interesting. You act like he was teaching real science and about evolution. He was trying to replace religion with himself..