Atheist are stupid for thinking something came from nothing?

Discussion in 'Religion, Beliefs and Spirituality' started by duck hut, Aug 6, 2011.

  1. Saying humans created time is like saying we created the 3 dimensions just because we made a way to measure them. Regardless of whether or not we measure it time still exists on a physical level, if there was no night or day etc. time would still exist, we would just have a hard time measuring it. What we created was a way of measuring cycles, but that doesn't negate times existence. If you had no concept of measuring time you would still recognize that there are things that happened before that aren't happening right now, hence a past, and hence time.
     
  2. Why is it that when aliens come up, the question of their origin is usually not asked? To say aliens put us here sidesteps the infinite regress much in the same way god does. Aliens still either had to be created or they evolved. Aliens are not an answer to the question, even if they put us here.
     
  3. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuPoVfsv86E&feature=player_embedded]‪ATHEISTS: "Who Created God?"‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

    In order for God to exist, He must transcend all of existence (space, time and matter) in order to create it. God's eternal nature cancels out any form of logic that says, "God needed to come from something".

    I admit, this belief is not logical, but most of our spiritual beliefs don't follow the lines of formal logic and that's why it's called "spirituality" and not logic :)

    I think that video might help you understand the Theist's perspective on God's existence. Might I add, you are not obliged to agree with it
     
  4. People just have too little of a philosophy to understand Eternity. Regardless of if there is a God, let's just imagine that there isn't, the area that our Universe exists in has always existed, there was never any "beginning" and there was always something for various Universes to "bang" in, and causes that go back into eternity if an effect can't exist without a cause (and all causes are effects).

    Even if there is no God, Eternity is the ONLY logical option, so why is it so hard to comprehend that if some vast space that the Universe or multiverses exist within has always existed, that a God could have existed eternally?
     
  5. I totally agree man.
     
  6. Why is that the only logical option?
     
  7. Because all other options are illogical. :p

    Explore em dude, share some if you have em.
     
  8. I'm just pointing out how silly it is to say "well, even if god isn't the only option, eternity still is, blah blah blah"

    The fact remains that we don't know

    None of us.

    We don't have an inkling.

    Putting yourself into a corner believing this or that is the only possible way is detrimental to the search for the real answer because at that point you're only trying to find YOUR answer and not THE answer.

    How many different ways are there to roll a joint?
    How many different ways are there to create a universe?
     
  9. #49 oldtimer846, Aug 6, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 6, 2011
    Who created God, most of the time i think he was created by man, just another way to control the masses. A long time ago god would have been the man, and the church would have been the one enforceing the laws, or at least some of them, the king would also have their own laws. God in this time is basiclly the same thing, and does still control a lot of weak minded people, and people that just need to beleave there is some thing after death, they cant coop with the thought that this is it, and what ever you do in this life is it. Oh ive got to say this, religion still does a good job of keeping a large part of the public from doing really bad things, well except the people that do bad things in the name of religion.

    Then there are times that i think there may be something else, in mot sure what, The time that i think this is when i think of the things it takes just to hold this planet togeather. There are a lot of things going on everyday that if they where not there would be no people, or very few left.

    Do i beleave in god i think not, but i do know that i am one of the people that want there to be more than just this, and to live on in another form.

    If any of the spelling is wrong, i just burned one.:smoke:
     
  10. To me, this statement seems a bit biased. You don't know so you posit the idea that no one knows.

    I would agree with this, to an extent. Do you realize the corner you have put yourself in? "No one knows". This will prevent you from ever knowing. Consider opening your "self" to the possibility that someone, somewhere might actually know :)
     
  11. Because we don't. Do you understand how large the universe is? We've barely scratched the surface of what's going on in our own galaxy. I will gladly posit the idea that no one knows. Anyone with an answer is just guessing. Pure speculation based on nothing. Even if they guess right, it still means they don't know because they can't show how they arrived at that answer. In the high school this is called "showing your work".

    The corner of admitting that I don't know? If you truly agree with my statement, then you're agreeing that anyone who pretends to have an answer are the ones painting themselves in a corner. I state a simple truth.

    If someone, somewhere actually knows, then they'd better come forward with compelling evidence or I'll just continue my intellectually honest stance of "I don't know".

    Obviously, feel free to be okay with the idea that you know (if you do feel like you know), but understand that even if your idea of creation is right - you can't actually say that you know unless you can provide some kind of objective (by the definition in the dictionary, not some backwards skewed idea of what "objective" means) material that shows how you arrived at answer.

    TL;DR: Delude yourself if you want, I wont participate.
     
  12. You can posit that idea all you want, but it doesn't mean it's true. In fact, you have just presented an argument from fallacy.
    I asserted that I agree to an extent. You don't know who is pretending to have an answer. Do you KNOW that no one KNOWS?
    Compelling evidence for what? God or eternity? They're both philosophies and cannot be proven through "compelling evidence".

    alright man. To each his own.
     
  13. Please do show me the fallacy. I expect a well thought out response as to what fallacy I present when I say that no one knows the origin of the universe.

    Yes.

    Then I will continue being honest with myself when I say that neither I, nor anyone else, knows the answer.

    Blah blah bliggity blah.

    That was just as relevant as your response to my statement.

    I'll take it that you concede the statement is true when you say things like that from this point on.
     
  14. Just because "we've barely scratched the surface of what's going on in our own galaxy" does not make the claims of God's existence any less true on either side. Your conclusion is based on knowledge that is totally irrelevant to the argument.
    Rhetorical- How are we supposed to know you aren't just pretending?
    As you should be honest with yourself, but when you begin to make assumptions about another person's knowledge, you posit a fallacious belief.

    What type of formal response do you honestly expect from someone who says, "TL;DR: Delude yourself if you want, I wont participate." right after dictating what I can and cannot do? There was not an ounce of motivation in me to respond to that post, intellectually.

    I've said my piece and you've said yours. There's really no other place to go except endless debate which I choose not to participate in as it only feeds the human ego.

    Peace
     
  15. This isn't an argument about gods existence. Please stay on subject.


    Because in order to have an intelligent discussion, you have to take what I say at face value. If you don't, it goes nowhere and we just sit here bickering.

    No, I don't. Do we know the origins of the universe? Then nope, no one knows. This information is currently not available, ergo no one knows.


    Where exactly did I dictate what you "can and can not do"? What kind of argument is this turning out to be? Why can't you just respond?

    So you're unable to participate in an intelligent discussion because you're making up things like I'm "dictating" what you "can and can not do" and positing fallacious beliefs or "pretending".

    I'm not sure you're even trying to respond. It looks more like you're trying to make little backhanded remarks towards me at every turn because you have no interest in participating in what has been, up to this point, a calm and intelligent discussion.
     
  16. I will send this last post as it seems you may have misunderstood my prior response. Consider it my last, to you.

    It's currently unavailable to the sciences, but not philosophy... and that's the section your in bro.




     
  17. AKA, you got caught red-handed and are practicing your dodge, deflect, retreat tactics. :rolleyes:

    You can't philosophize the origins of the known universe. BRO. That's not a question for philosophers and that's the point.

    and I'm laughing my ass off at your idea of being "dictated" :laughing:

    Please be real, man. I try to respect you every time I respond to you, but every time I say something you come off with this shit to try and justify bailing on a discussion you willingly enter but have no interest in honestly participating in.
     
  18. I believe the concept of a one true (insert supreme being's name and demands here________.) is just about as far-fetched as the universe being created from nothing. The more I ponder these thoughts, the more I surrender humbly to myself that we cannot even begin to wrap our minds around the vastness and power of the universe. I understand we are trying to understand, but the human race is truly ignorant if we claim to know what has and is happening all around us.
     


  19. Approaches favoring ex nihilo creation

    Arguements against ex nihilo creation

     
  20. ... Nothing is not something. You obviously don't understand the concept of nothing. Zero has a value, it is not nothing. Differentiate the two. Nothing can not exist within the confines of our universe, for if it existed it would be something. Existence denotes a value of varying degrees.
     

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