Atheism Is A Faith Based Position

Discussion in 'Religion, Beliefs and Spirituality' started by mrgoodsmoke, Apr 24, 2010.

  1. #101 edward, Apr 25, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2010
    I don't think God is an entity, I think the word is a good word to describe the overarching, orderly nature of the universe, ideals, truth, reason, synchronicity, etc.

    I believe Greek mythology is just as truthful of an allegory as almost all other religions...

    I would still believe in God even if nobody had told me, because I decided I was atheist when I was around 13.

    I have had experiences in my life that lead me to believe the physical universe is a mere reflection of the spiritual.

    And I've already answered your questions addressed to others in earlier parts of the thread. Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence, its just an indication of how little we know.
  2. #102 Exhalation, Apr 25, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2010
    i got tired of reading all the nonsense after the third page.

    Atheism IS a faith based opinion, by the definition of the word atheism means that you actually believe there is absolutely no existence of god, belief is having faith in something to be true, therefore you have faith that there is no "god". Agnosticism is a bit more complicated, it can take multiple routes, generally those who are agnostic are non-committal, or are skeptics, you can even be an agnostic atheist, even and agnostic theist. It all comes down to wording and the inherent flaw of human language, how others perceive what is written or said. I dont think i am a theist or an atheist, not even agnostic because i dont believe in empirical skepticism because that relies on what we know. To me, knowledge is an opinion, opinions are defended by an argument, i simply choose not to argue at all and deny all knowledge because i believe it to be absurd, unknowable lol.

    i dont see why people have to label everything. this would all be fixed if we could actually send others our mindset, exactly how and what we are thinking. communication is missing the "how" part and the what part is really fuzzy. ill continue to think everything is absurd, theres know way to prove anything, even mathmatically.

    why even try...embrace the absurdity of it all, and continue to "learn" and live within "normal" means like you are doing
  3. And there's always the potential that the person not exhibiting faith in god is wrong.

    Theists observe evidence of an invisible force. Sound familliar?

    You used to be a theist, and now you're an atheist, correct? Well, what changed?

    Certainly not the concept of god. You changed. Your evidence changed, your subjective observation.

    You know very well those legs can fall out from under you. Based on all the times you've sat in a chair, you have faith in the four-leg system. If every time someone sat in a chair the legs broke, they wouldn't have faith in chairs anymore. It's all the same shit.

    Of course it is. You've made an assertion and believe yourself to be correct. Faith in yourself, faith in your observations.

    If your own observations aren't evidence to your claim, you're making a baseless assertion.

    If you can't have evidence to claim that god doesn't exist then how the claim be made?

    If you just claim god doesn't exist with nothing to support your claim, you're making a blind assertion.

    Atheists don't do that. Theists don't do that. They rely on evidence relative to the concept their supporting.


    Everybody does it.
  4. to H20420 you are still using faith in an every day sense instead of the theistic use of it. I don't have faith in god, simple as that. if the evidence presents itself i will change my views accordingly. Therefore i do not have faith.
    You're argument is that if i do not believe in god i have faith in my belief, and i see your point but that is simply the other use of the word faith. Of course I'm going to believe in my own ideas.. It just happens that my ideas are based off of logical thought, unlike religion..
    As was said earlier in this thread claiming something exists with no proof has the burden of existence or something like that. If you claim god exists i could say no evidence supports that theory. If i say i don't think god exists because there is no proof; that is just logical.
    Penelope and cottons did a better job explaining this then me but i gave it a shot
  5. In the end god will smite those who do not believe in him.

  6. Correct.

    What is logical is not universal. Logic is based on the subjective observation of a concept.

    A person sees logic in the existence of god as another sees logic in the absence of god. Who's right? Depends on who you ask.

    This is why there is no peace. This is why humans war, why political parties exist, and why there are labels such as theist or atheist. Faith.

    If everybody agreed on everything the world would suck; we wouldn't even be having this conversation. This statement can not only be refuted based on subjective interpretations of reality, but the refutation and the statement itself can be attributed to the presence or absence of god equally.

    "Because of the absence of god there is no universal agreement. Fuck god, people suck."

    "There is no universal agreement because god made it that way. God loves us, everything is perfect."

    Nobodys right if everybodys wrong.
  7. Even in the general sense, faith does not apply to atheism.

    Faith is a belief in something, atheism is the lack of belief. Unless it's opposite day, they aren't the same thing.

    It's kind of like saying, an empty cup is the same thing as a full cup, simply because there is a cup involved.

    I think you are trying to bend the meaning of the word faith to fit your opinion, rather then bending your opinion to fit the actual meaning of the word.
  8. #108 H2O420, Apr 25, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2010

    Atheism is the lack of belief in a god.

    Which is a subjective observation of reality you made with your senses, which are connected to your functioning brain.

    It's more like saying an empty cup is the same thing as a full cup because you're perceiving the cup, and the concept of 'full' and 'empty'.

    Only in this case there's not just simply a cup to perceive, it's a force ingrained in nature that manifests itself in concordence with preconcieved connotations.

    If you had no faith you wouldn't be a human. You wouldn't be a conscious questioning entity, at the very least.

    Personally I find the god/no god argument, or rather the concepts themselves, irrelevant, as it just boils down to another brain function, which can't extend beyond the realm of the brain. I.e. the brain is limited to itself.

    Buddahood is where it's at IMO. Nothing to lose, nothing to gain. Everything just is. :confused_2:

    EDIT: Also, for clarification, I'm not bending shit.
  9. Buddhists are atheists.

    I'm not debating whether or not there is a god. I'm not debating perception.

    I'm debating the actual meanings of two words, as defined in the english language: Atheism and Faith.

    This is not a deep, philosophical discussion.

    The definition you posted:

    All of those define a belief in SOMETHING. Atheism is the lack of belief.

    Atheists can have lots of different beliefs (or faiths as you may call them): Some atheists are buddhists. Some are humanists. Some believe in the flying spaghetti monster. Some are universalists.

    But the one common denominator in Atheism is the lack of belief in god.

    Again (and I know I keep repeating myself), that's the opposite of faith.

    Whether or not there is a god, is an entirely separate discussion.

  10. You have faith in your ability to accurately percieve reality. :laughing:

    It's not a deep philosophical discussion, it's how our brains work.
  11. Honestly, H2O2O... I like you, but I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

  12. :)

    Just that we can't know everything, and everything we do know can change in an instant.

    That and everyone has faith in something. Whether it's that a chair won't break when you sit on it, or that when the chair leg breaks it happens for a reason.
  13. Er, wait what is the difference between saying "lack of belief (in god)" and "believe there is no (god)"?

    Honestly to me that's saying the same thing.

    I am standing in an empty room.
    I believe that there are no invisible and intangible objects in the room.

    And yeah I see your post up there Penelope but I still don't see the difference. Maybe im just retarded.

  14. You just made my point for me. Everyone has faith in SOMETHING, but
    Atheism is the lack of belief in one specific thing.

    Atheists have faith in things too, just not in god.
  15. And maybe you guys can clarify something for me.
    Knowledge: that which is know with absolute certainty. (?)
    Belief: that which is believed to be true without absolute certainty. (?)
    Faith: A belief without knowledge. (?)

    And would that mean all beliefs require faith?

  16. So you're saying Lack of Belief = A Belief

    Let's change the word belief:

    Lack of money = money
    Lack of shelter = shelter
    Lack of food = food
  17. Hmm, I forgot about this comparison.
    Yet there seems to be a flaw in it...which I can't see right now.

    The only way you could lack a belief is if you are unaware of a claim.
    When you become aware of the claim then you will have a belief regarding the matter.
  18. No matter how you slice it, faith and atheism are the opposites of each other. Even if atheism is a belief, based on the definition of "faith" posted above:

    Faith is the belief in something

    Atheism is the belief in nothing

  19. Beliefs are intangible though. I can hold an infinite amount of beliefs in my mind.

    I'm not arguing anything about gods, just to be clear. I'm arguing the statement "I belive in nothing" (for the most general example) is still a belief.

    My question, I guess would be "Why acknowledge the existence of god at all"? If there is a god, as in a being, he's well beyond us. Even theists say that. For all we know god could want us to not believe in him.

    Atheism to me seems like a moot side, just as much as theism. A moot side to a moot argument.

    Why assign a label to something you believe doesn't exist?

    And, to address a previous poster, this alludes to the concept of 'all' being 'one'.
  20. Yes, "I believe in nothing" (Atheism) is a belief, when taken by itself.

    But if you are comparing it to "I believe in something" (Faith) those two statements are in direct opposition of each other.

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