As An Atheist I Wish...

Discussion in 'Religion, Beliefs and Spirituality' started by viper11smith, Dec 28, 2012.

  1. ... that I could believe in God.

    A true belief in a God, in any denomination of any religion provides the believer with a grasp. The believer is mesmerized by the all knowing being that created him, and the all knowing being provides so much for the believer. The believer has someone to thank for his life, he has a true divine father figure capable of knowing everything. Of course life is meaningful to the believer he has absolute validation that he deserves to be, and needs to be alive for as long as he lives because it is part of the plan of the creator; or at the very least he wills it to be.

    For the atheist none of this comfort exists. He is simply a link in the evolutionary chain, here by some inexplicable cosmic accident, side effect, mistake. He knows that he is from lower beings, he recognizes he is flawed, animal and destined to slowly fade away and die, never to be remembered or revered in the kingdoms of the believers afterlife. In this way too, this life is the only thing the atheist has, so he clutches to it literally for dear life with no knowledge of why, or whether it even matters if he does.

    Mind you the delights and beautiful things in life are experienced by both parties :)smoking:). They will both love, lust, hate, cry and hurt. The difference is that the believer knows that it is all validated, essential and everlasting, putting him at the ultimate ease. Atheists may say that they welcome the burden as a blessing; but this is a hallow claim, as they have no choice.
     
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  3. #3 esseff, Dec 28, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2012
    For those who call themselves atheist, many do so as a reaction to the nonsense that is religion and its god/gods. Understandable really, if this was their only choice, their only god idea, what other choice is there?

    This is why I post on this forum. Not to change anyone's mind - they will do that themselves. But to reveal, in my own small way, through the things I write, that there is a truth out there, that can be called god if you wish, but doesn't have to be, that has all of the reality, with none of the bullshit.

    For those who have rejected the idea of a conscious Universe because the ideas they were fed as children made no sense to them, are not lost as a result, far from it. They merely approach things another way, and as there is no right or wrong way to do this, theirs is just as good as anyone else's.

    What many don't realise is, in rejecting the god of religion, without having to decide to put some other idea in its place, they do it anyway. They don't always realise it because it's nothing like the thing they've rejected. They just live according to the way they believe they should. They do it with honesty, integrity, and truth. They don't need some story in order to believe in something, but they are real, and they are exactly who they need to be.

    More than good enough.
     

  4. Ah! Another grass city profit come to enlighten us to the truth of the universe! I really do think that it is fantastic how many on this forum seem to know the truth, and how different those truths can be. Sounds more like belief to me.


    Ok so no matter what you believe it's right for you because no one knows for sure, so nothing can be proven to be absolutely false. I get it, very post modern, but I get it.


    And the postmodernism continues. Yes, I understand that everyone who does not believe in God is not lost at sea wailing away at the terror of the void in which they float. The issue lies in the details my friend. Even the happiest, learned, experienced, do good, feed African children while washing off oiled seagulls atheist is absent of one thing. Assurance. Absolute penetrating belief. Regardless of how convincingly the atheist has replaced the God hole it will ALWAYS be in doubt because he himself fashioned it. He is human and he knows it and HE ALONE fashions his paradigm. The believers paradigm is fashioned by an all knowing deity. That's the difference.
     
  5. #5 Kush Lord, Dec 29, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2012
    You act as though someone who "believes" knows for a fact that God exists.

    Believers face doubts and uncertainties...they also face the possibility of God not existing.

    Likewise, there are atheists who find comfort in the possibility of an afterlife/God.
     
  6. What do you think of someone who believes in fairies, chupacabras, imps and goblins?

    Would you trust them to house sit for you?
     
  7. #7 esseff, Dec 29, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2012
    It is all subjective when it comes to interpreting and describing something that is felt rather than believed. Once you understand the difference between the ideas the religions expound, and the reality of what is by its very nature, incredibly personal, the difference between us makes perfect sense. This is not a quantifiable thing that can be proved to anyone else. For those who understand this, no proof is necessary. For those who don't, no proof is possible.

    It's not a question of belief - this is still part of the old religious way of thinking. Belief implies something taken on faith because it sounds good, feels right, but the believer has no evidence that what they believe is true, otherwise they'd have no need to 'believe' it. Nothing needs to be proven as it's not for anyone else to accept it. That is its nature I'm afraid, and why the egoic mind cannot fathom it.

    This 'all knowing deity' is again part of the old mental constructs that are born out of religious thinking. I never said anything about 'believing' in such an anthropomorphic idea. God is not that - never has been. It cannot be that for anyone who has gone beyond these things through their own direct experience of it.

    I am not trying to show you that you are missing something. But you rightly recognise this thing referred to as the 'god hole'. It is not a 'hole' that must be filled with some idea or belief, although many attempt to do so. When the right connection is found, there is no question that what fits does so in a way that nothing else ever could. Not much more I can say.
     
  8. Never mind believing in them, there are people who see and experience them. Those who do can be some of the most interesting people out there. I don't know about leaving them to house sit, but I'd certainly prefer to stay and talk to them rather than going somewhere else.
     
  9. It's interesting that people alienate themselves from a spiritual awareness and focus on only their material existence and rely only on that.

    I don't blame anyone for it. I believe, at times, a period of this speculation is necessary to develop general awareness.

    However, there is a point in everyone young person's life that they should open possibilities into their life that they normally wouldn't even taunt towards.

    It's healthy to analyze yourself objectively and "try things on" as if you were in a department store looking for your size of dressings.

    You never know what--who--you'll find in that time.
     
  10. I beleive you are just wanting to argue your own predetermined ideas on atheism to the predictable responses that your question appeals to. There is no correct answer/query to your question no matter how rational. You are appealing to the same sympathetic/artificial desires that religion appeals to.
     
  11. I don't find any comfort in "knowing" answers by intuition. I never have. That's why religion failed me.

    As far as I can tell from anyone/everyone, no one can really say more than I DON'T KNOW. You can convince yourself otherwise, but rarely anyone else. About the unknown, nothing I tell you means more than what another person tells you. That's the fact. It's the sales job that follows that does all the work.
     
  12. They could say 'I don't know for sure' because what they've decided will always be some kind of interpretation anyway. But that's only the mental construct most feel a need to come up with. What they're actually attempting to interpret is something within, and that isn't something that needs to be sold to anyone. That's just the religious way of doing so as they take the one size fits all approach.
     
  13. "The future is the only transcendental value to a man without God." - Albert Camus

    I think after you get past the angsty part of atheism (which I dealt with heavily, I was pretty much in a perpetual existential crisis for the latter part of two years, which admittedly was very tough to deal with) it's actually very liberating. At this point in my life, I no longer consider whether god exists an important question in my life. It's absolutely meaningless and I don't even consider it anymore. I hope you land somewhere around there, because I love the feeling of it.
     
  14. #14 Megacosm, Dec 29, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2012
    Dude you fucked up. First you gotta wish for more wishes.

    Some people need to think a big guy is always watching them to keep them from doing stupid shit. Others don't. That's religion in a nutshell.

    Shit happens. I don't claim to know or care how life started. Not my job to figure it out. I haven't worried about a god since I was a little kid. I actually forget religion exists all of the time haha.
     
  15. agreed
     

  16. You seem to be missing -- or perhaps understanding and willfully circumnavigating -- my point. I understand that it is irrational to believe in the God constructs of the past with out current knowledge (by the way you mention belief as synonymous with blind belief or faith, this is not so, it would have been rational to have been devoutly christian in 7th century Byzantine for example). However, all the alternatives to the primal God construct conceived by modern man are utterly limited in comparison.

    The fact that you "preach" in these exceedingly esoteric, vague aphorisms does not make you immune. Everyone has felt the things you have felt they just haven't made them as paramount in their paradigm as you, thus you feel they don't understand. What you aren't understanding is that everyone must create their own subjective drama to deal with nihilism and angst and yours is no truer or more special than the devout Christian's.

    If you want to enlighten others to this truth paradigm that you claim to have found don't say things like "the egoistic mind can't comprehend my understanding of the abstraction of God". It's transparently condescending and bullshit to boot.
     

  17. Who are you to say that validation of one's existence is an artificial desire? If it is so artificial then why has every society in the history of man conceived of a intricate drama to explain his existence? Maybe you claim the desires are benign because you are not willing to face your own drama?
     

  18. You aren't addressing the original qualm. I said nothing about the moral equity of belief in God. According to your paradigm you don't need to reason out existence because you don't care. But is this not just repression? For if you chose to reason out existence where would it leave you? As a primate, thinking and feeling and seemingly important. This importance is subjective though, you would soon find the only person who really thinks it is necessary that you live is you. So you must answer to yourself, you have no father, you have no creator, you are alone in deciding why you are worthy of existence, why others must die so young, must be born disfigured and maimed. All this horror while you continue to smoke and laugh and thrive. And so either repression or guilt, denial or angst THOSE are your choices.

    You see you can avoid these issues, but they linger, unanswered. Unless of course you embrace a God in your life, then all is answered, provided for, explained.
     
  19. #19 esseff, Dec 29, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2012
    What a strange thing to say. Nobody has ever felt the things I have felt, nor I them. Making such preposterous assumptions makes no sense, and certainly doesn't further your argument. It feels more like you're simply giving an egoic, rather defensive response.

    I didn't say the egoic mind can't comprehend MY understanding of god, or any of those words in that order, which you even put in quotes as if I did so. I simply said the egoic mind cannot comprehend it, anyone's egoic mind, which is a valid point of view.

    You reveal how someone looking to make a point only sees what they want to in order to make it. It's a shame.
     
  20. you already lost your whole arguement is based on that you think that without a god life is horrible and when YOU perssonally think about it then you want to kill yourself. You then mistakenly that everyone feels just like you.\


    Well your wrong.

    Many atheists enjoy life and love finding out about the chaotic reality we live in

    /thread
     

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