Are You Free of the Political False Dichotomy?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by NorseMythology, Oct 19, 2014.

  1. The Democrat and Republican party have had exclusive control of the US Government for roughly the past 150years. How can we expect any change unless we change? I am not here to advocate any particular party, I am here encourage you to find another party that truly reflects your views.

    These two parties are at constant war (Syria, Ukraine, Iraq, Libia, Afghanistan, Mexico, United States, Columbia, Russia, Cuba, North Korea, Vietnam, Germany, Japan, China and that doesnt include covert wars such as Somalia). Not only against foreign people and powers but at war against it's own people. Example: Waco, prosecution of whistle blowers, patriot act, raiding dispensaries, war on drugs, wire tapping, censoring free speech via hatespeech and political correctness, free speech zones, income tax, indefinite detention without due process, bank bailouts, blocking third parties etc.

    If this madness truly represents you them by all means continue voting for them. As I said I am not advocating any party, I just cannot in good conscience sit back and allow these criminal organizations to keep running the show and lying to the world. I am not a historian so if you have any further knowledge of the corruption of the two parties and the political system, feel free to enlighten us.
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  2. "But a third party vote is a wasted vote, because everyone wont vote"

    Circular logic.

    I've never met a person who didn't admit they voted for a lesser of two evils...

    Idiots all

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  3. Yea I get that quite often. Any votes FOR those two parties is a wasted vote. There should be a boxing glove behind the ballot box. It will punch you proportionately to the degree of evil of their candidate or you can choose third party. Maybe that would get their logic across. I wonder if i was Stalin vs Hitler how many votes they would get?
    Hitler would win!! He's "the lesser of two evils," if memory serves.
    Hitler murdered around 12 million people, and Stalin murdered around 30 million.
    On another note:
    Government exists to coerce, plunder, destroy, and kill. What difference does it make WHO is running it?
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    Precisely. Even the most well-intentioned individual cannot alter the nature of government during their term of 'service'. 
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  6. I largely agree, but it would accomplish many side-benefits. It would greater expose the corruption. It would show the powers that the people are becoming wise and resisting their control. It would also show the world that the people are not to be equated with the out of control establishment.
  7. For myself my vote generally revolves around what in my universe and we all have our own universe involves. Im a small business owner so I am a strong proponent of lower taxes. Some of my hot buttons are gun control, excessive regulation etc.
    There never has been nor will there ever be a perfect system or candidate. Name any period in history where there has been. When it comes down to it your stuck with shitty and shittyer.
    One thing I wish is for people to stop only thinking about the elections on a National level if your a US Citizen. Your state and local by far are just important and more so. Everything from your roads, educational spending etc comes out of State and Local issues. People like your county Sheriff are very important people.
    The news is very Federally based and they would have you believe there the end all be all when that is simply not the case. Federal Law does not trump State law in many many cases.
    I know where I stand though and I do go to my local political meetings, volunteer, actively vote in my local/state/federal elections. Thats about all one can do really.
    In the county I live in voting did have a impact. We have a strict constitutionalists state Congressman who we literally got voted in. He has done much to fight back.
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    I keep thinking of this quote, "The masses never learn," that I read somewhere twenty or more years ago.
    If the masses could learn, government would be quickly abolished, IMO.
    "May you live in interesting times." :D
  9. #9 *ColtClassic*, Oct 20, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2014
    "Education is dangerous - Every educated person is a future enemy" - Hermann Goering

    "It is dangerous to be right, when the government is wrong." - Voltaire
    "I never believe anything the government tells me."  -- George Carlin.

    "Until lions have their own historians, tales of hunt will always glorify the hunters." - African proverb
    "Capital must protect itself in every way. Debts must be collected, mortgages foreclosed as rapidly as possible. When through the process of law the common people lose their homes, they will become more docile and more easily governed through the strong arm of government applied by a central power of wealth under leading financiers. People without homes will not quarrel with their leaders. This is well known among our principal men now engaged in forming an imperialism of capitalism to govern the world. By dividing the people we can get them to expend their energies in fighting over questions of no importance to us except as teachers of the common herd. It is thus by discreet action we can secure for ourselves that which has been so well planned and so successfully accomplished." - U.S. Banker's Association Magazine, 1924
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  10. I voted Libertarian once and he got about 2% of the vote.  That's a wasted vote.  By not voting for the lesser of two evils you are effectively voting for the greater of two evils.  You get to say at least you didn't vote for that idiot but really you did by not voting against him.
    Indeed they do not learn. Look who the masses voted for twice expecting things to be better.
    Exactly! If you go over to North Carolina the GOP and Dem Senator are locked in a very close race. About 8% of voters are supporting the Libertarian. By far 100% hands down the GOP Candidate is better then that sitting witch of a woman. Most of that 8% would probably vote for the GOP guy but he could very well lose to her.
  13. Of my town of 500ish only two voted third party, me and my girl. I would be horrified and ashamed if i voted for Obama, Bush, Clinton and on and on. Jfk or Carter may have gotten my vote but i would have regretted the latter. And I do vote the lesser of evils but I am able to count past two. Be proud you didnt waste your vote like 98% did. Some democrats (Denis Kucinich)and republicans (Justin Amash) are decent, but their parties are hideous. Once enough people demonstrate third or fourth parties as a viable option then things will change quickly, but people who continue to justify their "lesser of two evil" nonsense are to blame. As i tried to point out, if i gave you an option to be slapped by my left hand if democrats win or right hand if republicans win, or a pat on the back if you choose third party, which would you choose? Its not a completely similar analogy but it should get the false logic across. I tend to lean right on many issues but they still wont get my vote, why vote for someone who 40% represents me when i can vote for someone who 75% represents me?
    Thats all good in a ideal world but no system anywhere works really with a 3rd party candidate. It just splits the vote. If you think somehow Americans will be shaken from this and in mass anytime in your life time, your kids lifetime then its foolish.
    Your talking about a group of humans who vote largely based on what they want to hear and how one looks physically. Even waaay back when Kennedy and Nixon had the first televised debate looks sealed the deal. Kennedy wore make up looked young and was not sweating. Nixon's one leg shorter then the other, and his profuse sweating turned many off and it was a done deal after that. So ponder that in what your saying...if your unattractive you most likely will not win.
    The vast majority of Americans are not like you or I. News watching is at all time lows, newspapers are out of business left and right. We live in a society where Youtube/Netflix occupy half of the world's fiber optic bandwidth. We live in a society where nearly anyone under 30 that I know spend 3-5 hours a day on Facebook.
    That sort of society well you get what you deserve. You get people who vote based on nothing more then soaring oratory from a community organizer who happens to be a handsome fellow.
    Then the other issue is say you did get a 3rd party President well you have the support of none politically in our apparatus. Not that anyone does now. 
  15. LMAO @ partisan politics.
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  16. #16 QualiD, Oct 20, 2014
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    Yeah, I don't get the anti-third party stuff.
    From what they say, one can only conclude that they believe there will NEVER be a viable third party, that forever and ever there will only be two legitimate parties in the US, the Dems and Repubs. Well, the GOP has only existed for 150 years or so.
    Nothing is forever, especially monopolies.
  18. After pondering this..well voting is your right. We sit here and disagree on how people should vote. The very fact that they are voting is good. Who they vote for is immaterial since its a deeply personal decision. So if Democrats for the next 100 years continue to get elected well thats what the people want and vice versa.
    The very argument as Fizzly pointed out is partisan. The OP started this thread with a assumption perhaps that a 3rd party candidate is ideal..but what if the system we have is what the people want? No one put a gun to there head to make them vote. Virtually every politician in office is there because the people of the nation put them there. Sure they could of gotten there for any number of factors but last time I went to the ballot there are a multitude of people who run for everything.
  19. My OP was to say both parties have a long track record of inhumane actions and failure. As a fairly smart guy once said essentially " Insanity: doing the same thing
    over and over again and
    expecting different results."
    Very true but when the vote is cast that is how it is. Most people underestimate how one sided in voting that some are. African Americans for instance 90% of the time vote Democrat. Anti abortionists will generally vote 100% GOP or whoever is against it. The list goes on and on.
    When you do that you slice and dice yourself unintentionally and then all voting is gathering up the blocks to hit the numbers you require.
    Go take a peek at GA' s Senatorial race. the Democrat in that race her campain stragety was leaked on the internet by mistake and like all politicians in that paper they list the strategy of each voting block, how to get them, how to please them, and what they bring to the table for her.
    When you do that you tend to win. As a result our elections are based on people who say what you want to hear regardless if its right or wrong.
    A good example is today. Democrats are trying to save themselves this November by bringing up the "War on Women", telling minorities that its all over if they dont come out to vote. Republicans are using Amnesty to stir the pot. Just some of the examples but it works. It works literally every time as well without fail.
    That being said what do you expect to change? 

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