Beztoken, I look forward to LD's answer myself, interesting questions. I'll take a stab at some of your questions. And just maybe we can learn together. I sometimes feed with molasses, but does it do something good? I hope/think yes. It does feed microbes in teas, and putting on soil can make for a bacterial bloom I've read, so it makes sense that it would be beneficial, but it one of those things that evidence by simple observation has not been clear to me. I'm real doubtful of most ganja form claims of greatness though, I guess try it and see, but try it in small amounts, just don't go crazy. I have generally assumed we want bacteria dominance in veg then fungal dominance in flower, and we always want good microbe numbers whenever. Remember the term microbe cuts a wide swath. But once again by my simple unscientific observation, fungal soil works well in veg and bacterial soils can finish a plant well. So I'm confused on that question myself. I've read some pretty contradicting information on this from folks I respect, so I really don't know. Unfortunate for me, and maybe you, MI is not an organic Mecca, at least NE MI. We may be slightly ahead of butt crack AL, or hog gizzard AR but not by much. So making your own is where you want to be eventually. I have serious doubts about store bought, packed in plastic ewc or compost. It's probably better than nothing. Hopefully you will have some good choices where your at. If possible check out organic farms in your local, those guys should steer you right. Some communities have compost facilities that are cheap or even free. Not highly recommended do to pesticide questions but still better than nothing. And lastly if you get out to the forest and find some rich looking soil with healthy plants growing around, you can culture those soil microbes. Take some soil, mix it with cooked rice, and give it some molasses, keep it dark and warm and you can culture those soil microbes for your use. Just keep this in mind don't think you have to run out to the woods tomorrow, but the option is there........MIW
Thanks MIW glad to hopefully finally help you out somewhat. I am strictly thinking of feeding the soil not the plant. And I think I will look into making a small compost bin. I've seen the ones at menards that are like a barrel sideways on a stand with a handle you can crank and a couple others but, Idk about using a plastic compost bin tho I'm thinking I can put something together cheaper, I am fairly poor I guess. And yes no one I know is doing anything near what I'm trying to achieve. There is a horrocks close by and there prices are much better then the hydro shops, I went in one of the shops with a friend for a magnifier and mentioned EWC the clerk looked at me like I was crazy.lol. I never even thought of a organic farm I'll see what I can do. Just so I'm clear you said it both ways fungal for flower bacterial for veg? And 16 hrs 75 deg for fungal? What about bacterial same temp 24 hrs? I get my EWC from a soil factory that imo makes very good product but I have no idea what the make up of the castings are. If I made my own what materials do you feed the worms? Fruits and vegetables? And what kind of worms are the best producers? I will look up blueprints for both types of bins. Thanks, Be Eazy....V
What a thread - what fantastic reading. I'm following this one closely; the info here is so great - not the same old "dribble" I see on a lot of other pages. This one is actually some very useful - so very simple, but useful information. Thanks to all of your input here. Don't let this one die out. Beztoken, I would love to see what you end up doing with this information - if possible? Very, very cool. Thanks again. Jerry.
BeZ, sorry for the confusion on fugus vrs bacteria. You will hear folks recommend bacterial dominance in veg and fungal dominance in flower, and i have no evidence to doubt that. But i have seen what i thought to be fungal soil work well in veg, and what i think to be bacterial dominate soil do well in flower. Hence my confusion. I sometimes culture damp compost and ewc to make fugus, then use the same in a compost tea in flower. What goes on in the soil after that is unclear to me. At best I'd say it does not hurt, but is that enough to recommend going that route? I'm very willing to hear others thoughts on this confusing subject.......MIW
Yeah MIW this as well is what confuses me. I've read several published articles were they say AACT or EWC tea is very beneficial to the soil and in return beneficial to the plants on many levels and it can't be applied to often, and I do not disagree. But I think there is no real scientific answer (the one I want) on what specific types of brews and when to apply them. But I guess that's what were doing here huh? And it just makes sense to me that once the soil is inaculated with the benificial elements of the tea, you need to keep them happy, and I know I'm happy when my bellies full. And I know what my favorite foods are. And I get sick of eating the same things because all the elements of my body need different things I can't live on sugar alone and I don't think the soil can either. So I'm going to add molasses for now in small doses because the bacteria like it rt? I'm interested in the Aloe Vera and Organic Blue Agave Necture over the molasses tho. I see LD says in the tea brew sticky he maintains with weekly waterings of fish enzyme and seaweed extract. I don't have the same soil or all the ingredients for the tea recipe but I will try to pick these up and use weekly. Thanks much respect and appreciation, Be Eazy...V
BeZtoken I'll see if I can't clear up a couple of things about bacteria and fungi and I'll use this information from the University of Texas as this explanation is far better than what I could come up with. So the key to creating a hi-fungal compost is to let it 'cure' for several weeks once the thermal part of the process is completed. Adding composting worms will only enhance the entire microbial profile. That's if you're making your own compost. If you're not then the suggestion of mixing up your soil, hydrating it and letting it sit for several weeks will increase the fungi levels. What you're missing perhaps is that in the process of brewing up a compost tea you cannot increase the fungi colonies in the time frame and conditions involved. What is accomplished is that the existing fungi hyphae will grow up to 6' in length but it will not create spores or cause existing spores to launch and it would take me pages and pages to explain fungi development but the key is to add amendments which fungi thrive on - kelp meal, alfalfa meal, neem meal, soybean meal, sunflower meal, et al. Letting your soil sit after being amendment and hydrated will move you further down the road than any AACT ever will. HTH LD
Thanks for the read LD. I'm also reading up on the soil food web. And what I'm getting out if it is you need to have a proper levels of a diverse community of microbes,fungai,bacteria,protozoa,etc, within the soil to start with and you also need to feed that community a diverse arrangement of "foods". And if they are in the soil and in the proper proportions then they will do the work for you. If u keep them happy. I just have absolutely no idea what the ratios are and how I would even know if they were correct? So please correct me if I'm wrong or if this don't make sense, or just won't work, but since I don't know the levels ,if any, of the organisms within the soil and already brewed a 18hr EWC, kelp, alfalfa tea with a little molasses. It should be fungal dominate rt? And gave it to the soil (the first tea they got) Does it make sense to brew the same tea 24hrs & another 36hrs to introduce more of a proper level of the other bacterial and proto organisms needed within the soil. I ask because the soil I'm using was NOT amended before use with additives and allowed to properly cook, so I'm thinking It's probably lacking somewhat. Or is it to late to try and achieve the proper levels. I know its not ideal to do with teas but do I have another option? I guess the protoz are very important for the plants nutrients uptake so, Proto dom tea? Can't hurt rt? BTW I'm looking for a simple soil recipe know so I can start to prepare it for my next grow. I'm starting flower tomorrow so a minimum 60-80 days before anything I mix will be used. Thanks, Be Eazy.....V
Hey dude, be easy. lol The microbes will do what microbes do wether you are stressed about them or not. It's a lot to take in and you'll do fine learning as you grow. They and the plant will call the shots, we mostly are just along for the ride. We may have been a little too technical lately here. This is all interesting but knowing exactly what levels of each thing and such are not needed at all. Populations will change as nutrients are cycled, some microbes eating other microbes, then other microbes eating their shit. This is what a living soil or nutrient cycling is, knowing that much is enough for us mere mortals......MIW
Yeah, Lol MIW good one.(be easy). I have a lot of time on my hands and I read and review A LOT maybe to much or maybe I am just over thinking it (I think its some kind of c.o.d or something). There's just so much to take in. And I really do want to be simple yet effective. So just yes or no then. Does my simple EWC,kelp,alfalfa,molasses tea, if brewed properly once, support all forms of benificial soil life.Lol If no I guess u can add an ingredient. BTW I'm asking no more questions for awhile. Thanks, Be Eazy...V
I don't know what cod is, but I think I have the medicine. You are seeming a little stressed, kick back and relax, burn one. Your questions are not bothering me, no need to stop. If i don't know i'll tell you that too. Anyone who says they know everything about soil life is shittin ya. I was just destressing myself and forgot your questions, wasn't ignoring them. All this stuff will click at some point, then it all seems easy. But ya, your tea will do fine.....
Thanks MIW. But the reason I'm done with questions for awhile is that I agree time to relax, absorb all the info and see what happens. My last grow was just such a failure imo and I really want this one to do better.But I have faith in the new techniques I've learned here. I am going to include a pic of a top at harvest after 72 days of flower. It's the top of a 6 foot plant. Have you ever seen one bush out like this instead of focus on bud production? Thanks for the simple answer LD. Be Eazy....V
No compost tea can fix whatever issues you're dealing with - looks like it could be genetics but even then - hmmmmmm LD
I really think it was the nutrient regimen. But have very little evidence. I do know that I gave a friend 3 of the 11 clones I had, all the same strain from the same guy. And I know I used advanced nutrients sensi A&B,voodoo juice,b52,big bud,&cal mg, at no more than half strength, I had the overdrive but didn't use it (its basically the hobbyists bundle 200$ of PISS IMHO) I'm thinking it was the chemicals. I harvested maybe 2 ounces,not worth weighing, but I made around 14gr of some really nice bubble hash. The ones I gave away were under the exact same type of 600w hps but only given tap water and bionic bloom. They grew normal, nice x-mas tree shaped plants, no tops that bushed out all crazy,nice dense colas, he harvested several ounces. The strains local its called Purple Rhino and I'm smoking his rt now. The only other difference was I used Aurora roots greenfield blend soil with a little added perlite, he used Fox Farms soil, the one with the frog on the bag not ocean floor. But now the table has turned my friend, I'm using no bottles or synthetics just organic soil and amendments, I gave him the "advanced" he's going hydro. Trying to sell his design or something Idk I don't understand it. He's had MUCH better luck with soil, he's done hydro in the past with not nearly the quality of buds he's got from soil. Imo yield is a definite second to quality and who ever said hydro yields more needs to be smacked. Outdoor all natural is were the best yields come from they grow some 10 pound plants in the emerald triangle in northern cali, is like to see hydro do that lol. I think part of the hydro hype is the word dro, I'm blowin dro,I got dat dro,I'm growing dro, blah,blah,blah. I just want to add that the "dro" in most cases, if not done by someone who REALLY knows what there doing and flushes the bs out properly it don't burn in a joint and "TASTE LIKE SHIT". Here's a pic of a joint I took to show the guy who gave me the shit..... Needless to say I was pissed.
Yeah that was my last grow. I'm new to growing but with all my research I've never seen the top of a plant that's bushed out like that and continued to add height until they were chopped. Instead of focusing on a top cola they just grew those long branches with tiny little buds.
72 days? Thats too long. Like LD said - its probably genetics... Curious - have you ever finished this variety before with better results? Is it this plant or could it be the strain? If so, you shouldnt even waste your time my friend. Come up with different, better variety(ies). Good luck. jerry.