Are we really free?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by HongKongPhooey, Oct 12, 2017.

  1. (From an American perspective) was having this conversation with my GF last night. Both of us are felons so we both have a slightly different view of the world.

    Our "rights" were taken away from us for DUIs, mine for MJ hers for alcohol. But how can they be "God-given rights" if they can be taken away from you?

    In the American constitution the 13th amendment states that slavery is illegal except for conviction of a crime. So the government can make you a slave if you fuck up, hence the prison system.

    The reality is that your rights that your born with aren't really rights at all. They're privileges given to you, and can be taken away.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. You have the illusion of being free my friend that is all. This system is ran by money mongrels and all they care about is money most of all your money. They raise the retirement ages so they don't have to pay out you die the money's taken. Simple fact is my friend were all slaves and were all just pocket change. If we were really free we wouldn't be forced to work for 70 years living paycheck to paycheck just enough to keep us alive
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Fuck the government fuck the system
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. Who told you it was "God given"? It was the government. Far as I know God hasn't said anything about giving rights to American.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Actually, Thomas Jefferson taught me that:

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

    You really need to pick up a history book sometime Broski. Could very well be an eye opener.(yeah right)
     
    • Like Like x 3
  6. Being a convicted felon myself, I understand what you're saying. I can no longer vote unless I specially request my voting rights back and I have to do some paperwork for that. I can't own a gun, ever. That really pissed me off. That's one of the stupidest things the government ever did. How can you take away someone's right to own a gun for self defense? My "crime" will be on my record for the rest of my life. It's really hard to find a decent job nowadays that will hire a felon, no matter how long it's been since you were convicted.

    My "crime", was a drug crime. If we were truly free, we wouldn't have to worry about those kind of laws. Why does the government have the right to tell me what I'm not allowed to put in my body or what substances I'm not allowed to posses?

    Buy a house and a little spot of land, you're free and can do what you want at your own house, right? Not really. That house you bought and paid for has to have a ransom (tax) paid yearly or somebody can take that away. Pay for your car and still have to pay usage taxes on it every year.

    We're not that free and money certainly runs the show. This was just a few things I can think of off the top of my head. There are a lot of other ways were not as free as the politicians would have us believe.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. I'm always eager to learn history. Thanks for the lesson. Have you ever wondered who told Tom?
    Once you realize that Tom WAS the government and knowing how deceitful the government can be, do you believe him?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. My GF made the point that we have to pay taxes yet we can't vote. Literally "taxation without representation" what was fought for by the founding fathers. funny how that works.

    She had a story, her nephews dad was an immigrant Raised his whole life in America, and got into the gang life. Brother gets killed and he turns to drugs. He cleans himself up, turns himself in, goes to prison. Does his full time, gets out starts NA groups. Becomes a mechanic for the county working on ambulances. Works his ass off and becomes a full-fledged citizen.

    One day he was dropping his son off at school and gets surrounded by cops. He gets arrested, turns out they changed the immigration law. If you're convicted of a felony and are an immigrant, you are deported back to your "home" country for a minimum of 10 years. Even though he's now an American citizen, done his time, became a good member of society he is not allowed in the country he calls home. Meanwhile his son has nobody, the family he's got can't even speak English. Dad has nobody in Mexico, He got dropped off at the border and a good luck. Now he's just trying to survive the corruption. Been there 5 years with 5 more to go.

    How is that justice? How is that rehabilitation?

    It freaks us out. What if 10 years down the line they just round up all the Felons because they changed a law? What if I'm sent to prison because I smoked some weed and drove the next day? It's ridiculous.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. God given rights are a meaningless bullshit concept. Please hear me out on this. Ultimately what is a right and what does it mean consequentially when we say rights. In essence we means something that we ought to have. For example saying we have the freedom of speech means we ought to have the ability to speak without experiencing potential backlash from our govenrment. Or saying we have the right to property means people ought not to steal a possession of ours.

    In say an anarchist state your rights are only as meaningful as your ability to protect your own rights with force. You have the freedom of speech up until say a company imposed force on you to stop your speech if for example you were shit taking them. You have the right till property until some one with greater force comes along and decides they want your property. So basically in our current context we’ve shifted the job of physical enforcement of rights from the invidual to the state. It is not my duty to ensure my possessions remain mine. If someone say wrongs me and steals my possession l would contract out the enforcement of private property rights to police and courts who go after the person violating my property rights.

    So ultimately rights are only as good as your govenrment or individual abilities to enforce those rights. Which is why to me how we talk about rights in today’s political context is bullshit. These are not some magical things handed down to us by god. They are things we belief everyone ought to have and we can either have the individual the state or both try to protect these rights in some form although ultimately we will fail. Even that gets hairy because rights often conflict with each other. Additionally the states and individuals are only so good at protecting their rights against others and eventually people’s rights will be abused by either the govenrment or other malicious/self interested individuals.

    So to summarize no we are not free. Plus on top of that we’re all slaves to our evolutionary impulses.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Of all the government types back then he was one of the more legit ones. He owned slaves but disliked banking cartels and had some great things to say on freedom.

    Our rights aren't given to us by a government, that defeats the whole purpose. That's giving the government power over you, making them a God. Your rights are supposed to be the framework by which society and government are to revolve around.

    There's a reason the constitution starts off by saying "We the people" we fought and gave ourselves those rights. Otherwise it'd say "We of the Continental Congress"
     
  11. Forget all the God gave me this or God gave me that. All Tom wanted was a bigger share of the profits, his solution was to start his own government. All the rest was bullshit to feed to the masses to get them to put their life on the line to obtain his goal. We should have stuck with England, Australia, Canada, New Zealand seems to be faring quite well. They all have as good as or better quality of life than our corporate controlled government that has evolved since Tom.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  12. as a bird lad...
     
  13. Boooooooring...
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Government doesn't grant rights; they're supposed to protect them. But instead, they often infringe upon them.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. If having a ruling monarch sounds that great you should just move to those countries. Im sure they'd take you no problem.
     
  16. Thanks for your thoughtful suggestion. I knew that I could count on you.
     
  17. I'm glad we don't bow down to the crown. That's partially what makes America, America.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. adoring fans.jpg
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  19. Well that's what all those countries have, a monarch. Instead of a corporate elite, exchange it with a ruling family and a noble elite.

    Unless you'd like to institute Donald Trump as your king, his family as royalty. I'm sure that would go over quite well lol.
     
  20. I was wondering where you were going with all this monarch talk. Instead of whose worse, monarchs or the corporate elite, we should focus on the end results, the socio-economics created in the land of the free and the home of the brave All this "freedom" talk decreases the longer one goes with out eating or one having a debilitating illness that one can't afford the cure.
     

Share This Page