Are humans more valuable than animals?

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by DaChemist, Aug 3, 2012.

  1. Hi, me and a friend have a difference of opinion. We are discussing whether humans are more valuable than animals.

    I think that we are equal and that we cam from different evolutionary paths and we have both just filled a niche that we can survive in. Humans have just adapted to this environment and we have the ability to reason and use higher brain functions, yes that makes us special and gives us the ability to survive in this environment. The same could be said about animals, a cheetah has evolved special skills to survive in its environment, it has the ability to chase down its prey and can live rather well in that environment.

    Is it ok for us to eat an animal that is in our environment but not ok for the cheetah to eat us if we are in their environment. if it isn't ok for the cheetah to eat us why are we unequal?

    However my friend says that we are more valuable than animals and he thinks that is what gives us the right to farm and use animals in industry.

    What does everyone think?
     
  2. Humans are priceless, so no, they aren't more valuable, they are invaluable.








    Also, I'm vegan and I feel the same way about all sentient life, but I don't feel like getting into that.
     
  3. Animals had just as much time, possibly longer depending on species, to figure out how to make gunpowder, bullets, technology.. but they decided to fuck around in the wilderness. Humans are definitely more valuable by human definitions... we eat and kill animals daily by the truckload and I'm proud of it.
     
  4. All life has value, as all life is part of the collective whole. There are some who believe that certain human life has less or no value than other human life, so there probably isn't much point in looking to them for insight into other life forms. As long as we still kill each other because we can't accept the differences between us, animals will always be seen as secondary.

    Is a man worth the same as a mountain gorilla? Of course not. The mountain gorilla is far more valuable. ;)
     
  5. I don't know how we could possibly say which has more value. As far as I'm concerned, I have the most value in my life, and that's all that matters. Not saying I'm an asshole or anything like that, but without me, nothing would be, at least to me it wouldn't. If you get what I'm tryna say here. The world takes care of itself. I take care of me. If everyone took care of themselves without destroying others, shit would be all good. Animals are valuable. I eat them. But I only eat them so I can live, and live fit for this world, because I value my life. It all comes back to me at some point. Yeah, my life is ultimately about me.
     
  6. Nobody in the west needs to eat animals to live - it is always a choice. It may be a lot harder for some to eat well without them, but it is still a choice to so so.
     
  7. No fucking shit
     
  8. To live fit for this world. I honestly don't feel sorry for my food source and I never will. If something was to eat me, I'd be one eaten motherfucker with no words to say because I'd be eaten. That would mean my life had no value other than to be a food source for something capable of eating me. If not for eating animals, we wouldn't be where we are right now. We probably wouldn't even be here at all. A bunch of weaklings thousands of years ago being eaten by other animals because we put a higher value on animal lives than our own. Probably wouldn't have lasted long enough to gain the knowledge and skills we have today. We'd be dead meat. Meat for some other animal who thinks we were pretty damn tasty.
     
  9. A lot of people in the west would starve to death if not for fast food and animal by-products, because of the social conditioning which makes people dependent on what they are used to. Plus, its not cheap to eat healthy, its cheap to eat animals. That's like saying everyone could survive in the wild if they really wanted to...
     
  10. And word.. a lion sees no differences between a human and a gazelle, so there are no differences to put aside. Life is all about survival of the fittest. The strongest, best suited organisms always have and always will dominate. Plants, animals, even bacteria and shit like that.
     
  11. That's not true. It's not cheap to eat organic. I spend the same amount of money eating vegan as when I ate nonvegan and I get larger portions out of it because you get to eat more spinach and such to get your nutrients than you can meat since it's so unhealthy in large portions. Also, just because places like Burger King makes their side salads ridiculously expensive doesn't mean you can't still eat in town. You can still eat at Taco Bell and there are tons of other local places where I live that offer cheap vegan items on their menu. There is absolutely no justification for Americans having an unhealthy diet because they're poor. I live off food stamps and yet I've still been able to maintain my weight eating vegan for months and I'm by no means skinny or anything like that. You just have to avoid that bs about organic stuff cause that isn't affordable at all.
     
  12. Nobody is saying you should.


    You are correct of course. But even today, in order to feed the high demand for meat, we still breed animals using methods that cause them suffering. If you're going to eat meat that you haven't hunted yourself, the least you can do is ensure the animal has been well-looked after, killed 'humanely', etc.
     
  13. Ah. Thought you were one of those "don't eat the animals" guys. My apologies

    Eh, the world is what it is, and it will be what it will be. If that matters, it'll happen when the time comes. Not my decision. I have compassion for fellow humans and animals that are commonly cared for by humans, like dogs, cats, and other pets(Because they're important to humans), but I don't have any compassion for my food source. If somehow we could still get our meat without causing harm to the animals, that would be fine with me, but I don't care either way. I wouldn't protest or boycott or anything like that.

    I've squashed many ant's in my time. Caught mice on glue traps and threw them away to starve until death. Burned and drowned many many bugs during childhood. I didn't feel sorry for them then, and I don't feel sorry for them now. Would I burn a bug now just for the fuck of it? No. It doesn't interest me. But if it did, I probably would. It's a bug. My food source is only my food source. Don't care for em beyond that. I can live in society without harming humans. Animals, I don't butcher em or fatten em up, but if somebody's gonna do it, I'm gonna eat em. If it matters, it'll be fixed when the time comes. If it doesn't matter, it won't matter. If nothing matters, nothing matters. I'm not a selfish person, but I am myself, and not anybody or anything else.

    Do I think my human life is about humans op? Yes. Yes I do
     
  14. You can easily get hold of meat that has been bred without cruelty or inhumane conditions if you wanted to, without having to go free-range or organic, even though they are generally much better, but can be a lot more expensive. It may not always be possible in all situations, depending on where you are. But, even if you have no compassion for the animals you eat (and I'm only talking about these not pets), from a purely selfish perspective, animals that have lived a stress-free life, really do taste better.
     
  15. [quote name='"KenjaminK"']

    That's not true. It's not cheap to eat organic. I spend the same amount of money eating vegan as when I ate nonvegan and I get larger portions out of it because you get to eat more spinach and such to get your nutrients than you can meat since it's so unhealthy in large portions. Also, just because places like Burger King makes their side salads ridiculously expensive doesn't mean you can't still eat in town. You can still eat at Taco Bell and there are tons of other local places where I live that offer cheap vegan items on their menu. There is absolutely no justification for Americans having an unhealthy diet because they're poor. I live off food stamps and yet I've still been able to maintain my weight eating vegan for months and I'm by no means skinny or anything like that. You just have to avoid that bs about organic stuff cause that isn't affordable at all.[/quote]

    Umm. I don't know where you live, but yeah it is cheaper to eat shittier, especially from food that comes from animals. Food stamps are just as good as cash at most places, therefore you are not as poor as you think you are. What I was saying is not everybody has the options to eat vegan, like really? I'm gonna eat 4,000 calories of leaves and veggies a day while still maintaining the same amount of money spent? Hardly. A decent spinach salad mix runs like $5 at a grocery store, i'll down that shit in one sitting. Plus, if i lived in a town with not many options - the last place i would eat is at taco hell. They prepare that shit with their hands, plus, they probably use animal by-products in preparation, preservation or typical growing methods. Not to mention the kinds of animal residues and whatnot left behind from cooking animals. True veganism IS expensive, unless you like eating the same shit day in and day out... have fun with bags of rice and your spinach, I like flavorful food such as meat, eggs, honey, and yes, most soy has animal products. I was not referring to that BS usda labeled "organic." Sure hope you don't own any leather materials like a belt, wallet, glue, even most household cleaners.. etc if you think you're a true vegan. That might be a "perspective " to say its expensive from my opinion - and it is! I don't want to use the precious time I have here on earth (you could be trying to prolong your life all you want, then tragically be killed unexpectedly by almost anything nowadays) spending time (time is money) looking for alternatives to Lysol or whatever the shit because its not vegan, plus, that unfertilized egg in an egg burrito is in the same situation as an unfertilized cannabis flower, but you smoke it anyways - plants are alive too.. just because they don't have an aware consciousness like other living organisms doesn't mean they're not a living entity. They still have a connection to the universal energy source that fuels all living organisms. They also have very similar cell structures to that of an animal or human. You can't live off just minerals and water, so I chose to live my life in a balance, a balance for myself without being overly wasteful. If animals lives matter that much, then what about the lives of plants?.. which are more important to this planet's survival than anything and everything else combined. Plants reproduce with same or similar organs to animals, they even have ovaries for Shit's sake
     
  16. :laughing:

    I've eaten many different kinds of meats. They taste good to me. Some better than others but, eh, not complaining. Except for those extremely low priced meats that taste more like rubber instead of meat. Those suck :laughing:
     
  17. I'm not trying to change your eating habits here - you're free to eat whatever you're happy eating. But, you're posting on a spirituality forum, and that means there's also something to be said from this perspective too.

    These are conscious, sentient beings. They experience emotional responses, care about their young, and feel things, just like we do, and while eating them is something we will probably always do, we have a responsibility to do so as consciously as we can. Causing any being to suffer, especially one that is giving up its life so we may flourish, is cruel and unnecessary. I am surprised you have such an attitude towards what you eat.
     
  18. I live in Oregon and no it is not cheaper to eat unhealthy, it's all in what you buy. You can still eat healthily on a dirt cheap diet and that's how I eat. Maybe you should stop eating twice as many calories as you probably should? I mean, unless you're a bodybuilder, in which case there are specialized vegan diets for you... There's so much misinformation in your post it's ridiculous. Why don't you bother to actually educate yourself about the "true" vegan lifestyle before you say that it's probably flavorless and and full of soy products made with animal byproducts. Also, you have absolutely no place to talk about the value of plant life when you're so quick endorse the slaughterhouses on an everyday basis. If you'd care to comprehend vegan principles, the point isn't to abstain from all organic matter, it's to not exploit other sentient beings. So, as you're correct that plants are still living, they are not sentient and therefore it isn't cruel and unnecessary to utilize them for sustenance whereas slaughtering animals is. Also, the way the meat manufacturing industry is operating at the moment, it is wasteful to eat meat. You could sustain yourself on much less produce overall than it takes to feed you and an animal. Haven't you ever thought about all of the waste that animals produce while being raised? It's literally shit tons and all of that is produce and water that you could've just eaten/drank yourself.
     
  19. Philosophy, but I'm not trying to tell you to shut up or anything :laughing: Just speaking my piece
    I see it like this. They aren't giving up their lives to feed us. We're just taking it. And it's necessary for us. Aggressiveness and dominance are important. Lions take care of lions, humans take care of humans. I don't put another species ahead of my own. I'm not killing animals, I'm just eating them. We don't have to go out and hunt anymore. This is the way the evolved society does things. I appreciate the people doing the killing for me more than the animals who were gonna die and be eaten anyway. An animals life isn't supposed to be as good as ours. We're in the front for a reason. And I wouldn't call myself a spiritualist. I'm nothing of the sort. I'm me. A human. Labels further than that just confuses things.
     
  20. Oops! My bad. :smoke:

    As we're in front, as you say, don't we have a duty to be compassionate towards those 'lesser' beings we live with, especially if we're going to raise them for food?

    Isn't it right that while they're alive, we treat animals with care and respect, just because it makes us better people if for no other reason?

    How will those who champion ignorance ever come to let go of hate, greed and selfishness, towards people, if we can't even see those creatures we dominate and control for food, as having rights as living beings, irrespective of whether humans matter more or not?
     

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