Anybody that crosses plants please give this a read.

Discussion in 'Growing Organic Marijuana' started by SkunkPatronus, Nov 24, 2011.

  1. I had to repost this in the brainy section because of a lack of people cruising breeding right now. I need some thoughts on this because of the timeline on my flowering girls....

    ----------I have a 6 week old TGA's Jillybean male, showed preflowers at 4 weeks, kept going...it has 2-4 pod clusters at each internode and will open by my estimation in the next 2-5 days...IN VEG.
    I clipped and bagged it (hard because all the internode areas are confined to the merristem due to it's immaturity) and will collect the pollen. Just trying to deciede if I should use the pollen I collect?
    Deal is that it might be that one in a million 'early' male that cuts a flowering time in half on it's own offspring, like my old early pearl, or it might be a straight up ruderalis gene that I don't want. It has produced these clusters independant of photoperiod change, under a 400hps and a 400mh in veg under 18/6 light. Or it's just phototriggered by 18/6 or it's photophobic?----------

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. In my experience with indica dominants, many males will flower under 18/6 or outdoors while the days are getting longer, while others of the same strain might lag on an extra 4 weeks or longer before the 1st preflower opens. I've always taken it as nature's way of ensuring there is adequate pollen for seeding. For outdoor crosses, I have tried to avoid the "little twiggy that could" males and focused more on using the ones that exhibit larger and more abundant flower clusters, trichome development, and complex branching.

    I have 2 chronic males outdoors right now, and it's amazing at the difference in just the 2 in what is reputedly a very stable hybrid. One is just basically a twig with a mass of clusters on the top( very ruderalis in appearance) and the other is a meaty little bush that is easily 2 weeks behind for pollen production.
     
  3. #3 SkunkPatronus, Nov 25, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2011
    Thank you. I haven't ever used a 18 and 6 lighting photoperiod before, when I learned we used 24 on and then 12/12 when switched, or less for the sativas. I am cutting energy costs, and redirecting the funds into other needed iteams for winter. I have only had a couple of males do this under 24 hour lighting in my history of using males inside...they were ruderalise. Outside was years ago and I can't remember, I farm indoors. This is not ruder visually, don't know it's geno. It's a beautiful plant with huge flat green leaves and a candelabra look to it. The stalk is thick and shiva looking, strong, pushy. The stem smells sweet and floral when rubbed between thumb and forefinger. That's why I bagged it, but then I wondered if a ruderalise gene could recessively cause this male to make crosses that throw pollen regardless of photoperiod. Hermie auto's reak havoc in grow rooms, I can imagine what a bunch of rouge actual boys in my grow room would do. Sneaky little bastards. This looks good, just maybe a really early boy that changes during 18/6...very cool, thank you.
     
  4. I hope the pollen collection goes well for you. I may collect pollen from the 2 males I have outdoors right now, and do some selective seeding on my 2 indoor girls. I'm always a little hesitant in a grow room when doing so, because I'm afraid of pollen getting away from me.
     
  5. I spray all of the branches that I do not want pollenated with water, it deactivates the pollen that drifts in that direction during even a very careful application to one of the other branches of a plant. I spray everything actually, plants, dirt, container, walls, door, trays...then I 'unbag' the one I want to pollenate, it's still dry, and I dust it. Seems to work really well. Good luck with yours.
     
  6. What about the old wet artist's brush technique? Have you ever tried it?
     
  7. It's just basically dipping a dampened artist's brush into a container with pollen, then dabbing the calyxes you want to fertilize. The reason for my hesitation trying it indoors is I have gotten a few stray seeds that way before outdoors. You're technique sounds a lot safer, and I may try it. I just want to get a few seeds, maybe a dozen or so.
     
  8. #9 WeeDroid, Nov 25, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2011
    Just an aside about light schedules. I use and recomend a 20/4 schedule over 18/6.
     
  9. Might switch to 20/4...sounds safer :)

    No damp brushes, the 'damp' doesn't help the pollen. I use a brush, a dry one, but I spray the rest of the plant with water and only paint the ones I kept dry...it does help with not pollenating damned near everything.
     
  10. From an article at the old OG written by a real growing guru, the 20/4 cycle provides the highest level of health and vigor than several other scenarios that he tested and he did them all - 16/8, 17/7, 18/6 - you get the idea.

    That's what I've been running for 10+ years.

    LD
     

  11. Hey, me too. Never tired less than 24/0 before, just trying to stop using so much electric in the winter and redirect some of it and spread the cash out. It's actually an area that I have ZERO experience with, I learned the 'normal' way :) I can debate lighting types all day long, not timing evidently...

    I'll make the switch tomarrow.
     
  12. I use 18/6 and have for years and what ive noticed is that the males always show first in my room...and not sure if im right here but ive never had to switcb to twleve twelve to get male flowers to grow usually around twenty one days from seeds it becomes really obvious which is which..but ive had ppreflowers on thw girls while males start popping clusters..is was under the assumption that males will flower and pop pollen eventually wothout twelve twelve..i thought the males would wanna grow taller and disperse right at the beggining to halfway through so they can carry on the genetics...im way off here maybe but after a few years of 18/6 it sure seems that way to me..thats why within a week of showing I get rid of all males....the later they knock up the girls the less time the seeds have to mature...at least thats what I assumed...

    Sry for the the stoned ramble I took a xanax last night..still wobbly
     
  13. I've always preferred the seeds from the first pistils that were pollenated over later pollenation. For me, I always get larger seeds that produce better and more vigorous plants that way.
     

  14. I do a 18/6 for my host plants and clones and a 20/4 for veg. Never got into the 24/0, but that's just me.

    Do you have any rooted clones going? I've done small seed runs with just the pre flowers on rooted clones. Even better ... The seeds developed quite well under a 18/6 light cycle and 4 tubes of T-12, in party cups!!!!!!!!

    Got ~15 seeds off each clone. They were 6-8" tall.

    Wet
     
  15. I clone under 24/0 and never changed that and I usually pollenate in under the first three weeks of flower. Two rooms were changed to 18/6, the mom's and the large veggers...the babies never were. Will wander on over there now and switch it all back...

    Live and learn.
     

  16. The majority of the genetic make up of the JB is of lines that show sex quite agressively. Romulan and C99 will both show sex at about 6-7 weeks and if not under HID lighting may continue to sex but not as vigorously as in the flowing room.... Every thing ya have going on is quite normal. The Jilly line has a LOT of Phenos as its a three way cross that favors the C99 and Romulan appearence.
    you wont have any signs of the "rude" in there......as Lumps mentioned the 20/4 light schedule will be a better option for ya. and 24/0 on all clones till they are teens....
    its a very responsive line and at 18 hs light a good number of em will try to get into flower. they are fast finishers and 8 weeks does em' good but with this fast production you get the reaction you see from the male a lot of time....
    the good news is that when you make your cross you find that the line is VERY hard to hermie and pretty easy to grow......also puts off the Ice cream and cany flavors..very sweet, very tasty....

    you cant go wrong, the seeds will be good ones with enought diversity for you to find a good fem and BX the shit out of it.....

    just my thoughts, some may have more knowledge of the exact seed batch but I just know the genetics in the cross, I have a Romulan x C99 growin now...

    good luck,

    "G"
     
  17. Jilly Bean is Orange Velvet Skunk X Space Queen(C99 X Romulan). The Romulan used was an early version straying more towards the true Romulan Joe prior to it being BX'd to death into Afghani.

    There is no ruderalis in it, and if you are experiencing early preflowers it is due to being a more C99 pheno or could also be caused from stress. If you have alternating nodes, it is the more C99 pheno. The Orange Velvet Skunk is the dominant trait of this strain which is where the strong orange almost orange sherbert like scent from.

    Jilly bean is a very very stable strain showing very little variance. It has been around a long time and is well stablized now. Any variation you are experiencing is from environment, not from genetics. It is one strain which Mz Jill and Subcool actually stablized. The minor variations are typical in most hybrid x hybrid strains, and they sway between the Orange Velvet Skunk and the C99.

    Any strain, especially hybrids, will show signs of preflower(visible pistols)under certain environmental conditions, and when they reach sexual maturity. I doubt it has any form of auto-flowering gene b/c there was never any Ruderalis used any where in the lineages of the hybrids used for Jilly Bean. C99 in it's true form from regular seeds has often shown early flowers which shorten the flowering time. From F2 and F3 Bros. Grimm Princess 88 and Cinderella 99(Princess 94) seeds, I have crossed early males into other 8-9 weeks strains which have resulted in several hybrid which finish in 45-50 days. So far the Blue Chem([Loompas Headband X OG] X pre 96 Blueberry) X C99 F3, C99 F2 X Cali Grapefruit, and [C99 F2 x Cali Grapefruit] X CFSB Blue Geez are all showing signs of picking up this early flowering trait from the early flowering males used. All of these are some of the fastest flowering strains I have experienced which also give good yields; 4-6 oz's easy off a 3 ft tall plant in a 3 gl pot.

    Personally, I would use it on a few different strains if you have them and see which matches up best genetically.
     
  18. Thanks for all the info...you are totally right, just loving on these plants, Chernobyl and agent Orange and Jillybean city over here. Will cross the Jilly male with a Mandala Satori that I have.
    One nut popped this morning, looked in before I left. Pollenating under 18/6...guess I won't be doing that light cycle anymore, my head would be on a swivel trying to keep track of the seeding potential.

    I have grown out a few Agent Orange hermies, one recently actually, wasn't me :) only threw a few of them, about half into flowering, so there is some potential in the lineage somewhere in there.

    How's your Romulan with the C-99? I loved Snowcap (as I mention with frequency), and it's available as a cross of Snowcap x Romulan and I wonder if I might like it. Don't remember ever smoking any Romulan, never grown any for sure, my son says he likes it, but college kids like everything (especially when it's free).
     
  19. Yah like I said, Sub is an honest breeder. I still think he got agent orange from me but I aint gonna start nothin, Yes it can produce a few hermies.

    I used to run 18/6 about 20 years ago when I just used one room and grew out full plants but when I started breeding I had to change to 24/0 because I am always in and out of the veg/clone room taking cutings, inspecting plants, notes, etc. So its just been that way ever since.

    Males always show first no matter what. Im sure its fine.

    -TGL-
     
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