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Any clue why?

Discussion in 'Weed Edibles' started by MichelleS, Nov 27, 2012.

  1. I am exploring the different methods of making extracts for edibles. In my quest of trying to find a way to make the tar-like product I got using the Isopropyl evaporation method (using a hotplate at a low heat) I found this forum through BadKittySmiles wonderful thread. I have learned a lot on this forum. I will be trying her recipe tomorrow.

    The problem is with one I started sometime before Thanksgiving and I got distracted. I finished it up today. I left the combined Everclear/plant materials in the freezer for over a week. I strained and evaporated it today. I used heat at about 200 degrees. I think I went just a touch too far with it. ......So the problem is the end product was half tar-like and half kind of crispy. Being me...who reads a lot of recipes, then I go and make something up....I added coconut oil and Lecithin.....thinking it was more like the Isopropyl end product that isn't water soluble.....and that coconut oil would break it down. It did to a point. It still has a hard clump rolling around in it. Maybe I should have used water.....I was surprised when I cleaned the pan with water and it worked.

    So does anyone have an idea why I ended up with the clump.....and is there anything I can do to break it down?
  2. Maybe you evaporated too much, idk. If that's the case, I'd say next time just add some more alcohol and let that evaporate to the desired level.

    I'm not good with though tinctures, I prefer oils :D
  3. I am new to edibles and I'm reading between the lines of your answer... Is Everclear normally for tinctures and Iso normally for oil?

    Wanting to create medical grade edibles, makes me hesitant to use Iso. I tried and the smell is too disturbing, it feels unhealthy. It is hard to believe it leaves no residue. I really want to stick with food grade ingredients. Today I will try BadKitty's recipe.
  4. Yes, Everclear is normally used for tinctures. NEVER use Iso alcohol if that's what you're talking about. You're right, only use food grade ingredients!

    By oil I mean canna oil. Olive oil + cannabis is all you need. Coconut oil makes it even more potent.
    Since you're new to edibles you should probably make oil instead of a tincture, that's easier for me anyways. I think it would also be easier to put oil (or butter) in brownies or something if that's what you like.

    Whenever cooking with cannabis always remember to decarb your bud first. 25 minutes in the oven at 220*F works for me. Wrap the herb in foil first so you don't lose THC.

    After you decarb there are two ways to make oil:

    -Sit out method: Put the bud and oil in a jar and let it sit in your closet for 2 weeks. Shake it up every day. I've tried this method and it works very well. Once with Hemp oil, another time with Coconut oil. The high was STRONG and lasted over 13 hours!

    -Cook it: Use a double boiler (or just a pot of water with your weed jar/another pot inside it). This way you can heat up the oil/bud without over-heating it (use low heat). I think you can cook it anywhere from 30 minutes to several hours.

    I usually use 1 gram of bud per ounce of oil, but you really only need enough to cover the bud.
  5. I am exploring to find what works best for me. I am starting with perfecting Lollipops. I am about half way through reading BadKittySmiles 100 page post. It is so packed with great info. Much of what you mention is in similar to what she says. I was going to try her recipe for an alcohol based extraction today....and she does use Everclear. Unfortunately I can only get the 151 here. I made her Canna Oil over the weekend.

    I am intrigued by the "Sit Out Method", it sounds simple. Simple is good! Just Decarb then sit, shaking daily. Although you would have to use an oil that is always in a liquid state. I wonder if the extra processing of the Coconut, to keep it liquid, would alter the benefits of using the Coconut Oil.....assuming you can get Coconut oil that remains liquid.
  6. #6 BadKittySmiles, Nov 27, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 28, 2012

    I'm sorry I haven't been around to answer questions as much the last few weeks.... we're in a time of crisis over here, things haven't been well in my neck o the woods, I'm afraid. :( :eek:

    But just quickly, it's a simple problem of differing total solute/solubility between two solvents. :)

    The terpenes and cannabinoids we want are oil soluble, while the most of the salts, waxes and the chlorophyll which most prefer to leave behind, are not very (or at all) oil soluble, but they are very easily pulled into an alcohol/water based solvent. :)

    It's why the water butters of the old days used to taste so darn gnarly (and not in a good way, at least to most folks)! :p

    Washing in alcohol for an extended period brought in more non-oil-soluble plant matter, like waxes, salts and chlorophyll, some of which can be good for the skin and digestion, but many of which are not usually extracted (and not easily easily transferred) when making canna oil.

    In other words, a alcohol/water extraction pulls in impurities that are not oil soluble, so when you have a lengthy alcohol extract, and then transfer to oil (especially if heated too much, while still solid, before dissolving to the naked eye) you will experience insoluble 'waste'. :)

    It's one of several reasons why, when this comes up, and a patient or a member here has a dragon or alcohol extraction they wish to transfer to another edible solvent (even if it very well may be 'clean'), I'll always suggest to break it down as early in the process as possible using manual agitation and only a little heat!
    Once it's fully dissolved to the naked eye, then in spite of whatever material that may have washed into the oil earlier, it's best if you continue as though you were just beginning the infusion, at the start of an oil extraction.

    After it dissolves, you begin building a bioavailable solution from those 'free floating' cannabinoids & terpenes. :)

    If you allow a concentrate with impurities dissolve in oil on its own, without early agitation, the cannabinoids and terpenes content will gradually exit the mass, leaving behind the impurities, making them all the more dense and stubborn.

    But if you dissolve and separate a concentrate with insoluble impurities, early enough in the process, before too many of the oil-soluble cannabinoids and terpenes leave the dense layer, leaving behind only insoluble properties, those inert properties will be much more evenly distributed in your oil, particularly with the use of lecithin.

    (That is, if you do wish to keep those 'impurities' for their own small medicinal benefits, rather than filtering and removing them like many do... personally I like a longer wash sometimes for capsules because you can avoid any unpalatable flavor, and because the chlorophyll and waxes are excellent for skin and digestive health, and the natural plant salts have simple nutritional value :) ).

    Here is another post from just a few weeks ago that may help to explain things a bit better.... and another post, that may help you to feel not so alone!... I'm linking Matt's post concerning almost the very same problem, but in a glycerin tincture, as well :)

    Glycerin is a much weaker solvent, in general, and it is also a slightly more limited solvent in terms of what components it can extract and carry. Oil and alcohol are both faster-acting and more efficient in terms of those solutes they have success with, and they both pull in a slightly broader range of substances. It's why I refer to glycerin as a relatively clean tincture, even when made with flowers or trim, and soaked excessively. :)

    What this means, is that if you attempt to transfer a 'dirty' concentrate to a usually 'cleaner' solvent, often the cannabinoids can't even escape the 'outer shell' of impurities!

    Anyhoo :p

    Answer Post:

    Original Question:

    Followup/Fixed! :

    I hope this helps, and I'm sorry again for being so elusive, I'm really hoping for things to get better as the holidays approach. :eek:

    Hopefully I'll be around a bit more over the next few days and weeks. :)
  7. Thank you for your response here BadKitty. You information is awesome!

    Absolutely no need for apology as you have shared so much of your knowledge....and I have benefited greatly from it. I have only made it about 1/2 way through your famous thread. I have never gone back and read any thread before. I am truly impressed with your info! You have tremendous leeway with me!

    :) Although the problem I am having is kind of your fault. I got distracted from the experiment gone bad :) by the above mentioned thread.

    Today's experiment involves your oil recipe. I think it will have the results that I am looking for. Although I am pretty convinced that I need to learn to make hash. Your recipe for canna oil worked quite well for me too.

    Please pat yourself on the back and give yourself a hug from deserve so much more. I would love to send you a pendant....I melt glass this a sample of a bead I had to easily post. It was probably sold:

  8. ^Wow, that looks awesome! At first I thought it was a bowl to smoke with haha

    Now I'm wondering if that's why my coconut oil wasn't super intense like I thought it would be. It was very strong, but hemp oil seemed a little stronger. During the process I kept the coconut oil in my closet most of the time, and sometimes I put it in the freezer. Most of the time it was in my closet it became solid (and especially in the freezer) but there were some days when my room was warm and it stayed liquid. Other than that I would "melt" it by running the jar it was in under warm water until it was liquid.

    I still haven't tried using all the oils I want to, but next will probably be flax seed oil. Someone told me that canola oil works really good, so I might have to try that someday. So far I have confirmed that hemp and coconut oil work, and I've used olive oil, but not yet with the sit-out method.

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