Another Tincture Thread - Try it, You'll like it

It looks like it's already starting to flower. That had me confused at first but knowing it's an auto clears that up.

 

Welcome, Big Swifty, and thanks for joining our conversation.

The length of time for maximum extraction is going to be different for the different mediums. Using kief is going to streamline that quite a bit since you won't have all the plant matter to get in the way and all of your items are going to be much cleaner because of it, even the "dirtier" ones.

Alcohol will extract the cannabinoids from plant material within seconds although the standard that Skunk Pharms uses is 3 minutes, I think. There are some cannabinoids left that can be gathered on another run but that has a tendency to be a more sedative effect. The trichome heads with the prime load were stripped on the first run. Someone just interested in recreational effects may want to keep the runs separate but I like to combine both my runs so that I get more of the plant compounds. If you were making a QWET concentrate, the first would be the best for dabs. I soak my GD for a couple of hours in order to get some of the polar compounds into it, also. There's a whole range of options with alcohol.

I'd be a little careful with the inactive oil since you're wanting to preserve the acid, THCA. Heat could play a factor during extraction or a transfer. I've done a lot of lab tests on the alcohol tinctures but I haven't done as much with oils or heat. Alcohol won't hold the acid long before it starts discharging the carboxyl groups and it will activate. The oils would preserve those better. My lab tests have shown that both alcohol and oil extract 100% of the cannabinoids from kief but only about 80% at best from the plant material.

You don't really even need to remove the kief. It's not going to impact the flavor like the plant material would have. You don't have to use multiple runs with either the alcohol or oil for kief and you can make your tincture as concentrated as you want without having to worry about evaporation or dilution. 2g/oz of oil should be good but you can always use more.

Do you know the proof of the moonshine you're going to use? I have a quick video for a kief GD to show you how easy it can be. No altitude issues.

Kief Run 190/151 Proof w/Video Post 569

 

Howdy, Sirtootsalot, and thanks for joining in.

That was one of the first tests I did and like most normal cannabis, it didn't really have enough CBDA to give it a good reading. It was there, though, that I first started to see how CBDA is different than THCA when decarbing although I wasn't sure why or how. Now we know that while THCA>THC is pretty straightforward, CBDA >CBD, CBC, CBG and even THC in the right conditions. Because it's so little of the total cannabinoids, often less than 1%, it not easily detected in a lab sample. That's what I was seeing at that time.

Since then I have run tests on ACDC and Ringo's Gift and a couple of 1:1 strains to see how the decarb really worked and if the temps were similar. I've done heated decarb and natural decarb and the same times/temps seem to do the job for both CBD and THC. Here's a chart that I made for the Ringo's Gift heated decarb and you can see the raw data and that from 175°F & 240°F. Not much happened at 175° but the 240° for 40 minutes did the job really well. There's a little CBDA left but there usually is, too, with THCA>THC decarb.

Here's the link. Definitely decarb.

Another Tincture Thread - Try it, Youll like it

 

Always happy to help. Please be sure to let us know how things turned out or if you have other questions.

 

When I mentioned not removing the kief I wasn't quite aware of what you were intending to do. That changed with your posts to the BKS thread. Once I read those I had a better idea of the direction you were heading. I had the idea but not the full gist. It helps now that I've made the connection.

I did ask the correct question there at the end. Any time the evaporation of alcohol is involved with cannabis the conversation needs to be about the abv percentage, or proof. If you have something less than 85-90% then you will have issues with water and separation/layering. It definitely happens with 75%, 151 proof, at about 30% reduction but I'm not sure at what point it begins with a higher proof alcohol and when it makes a difference. 95% still has a little water in it but it isn't enough to confound things.

That's something that will affect a reduction or a solvent transfer to oil and what you learn will determine how you infuse your mct oil. I have done a solvent transfer with 151 into oil with the results somewhere in this thread with interesting results and it would definitely have an impact on trying to create an inactive oil.

Let me see if I can explain. One of the first things that you should do even if the tell you that it is 190 proof moonshine is to do a light extraction, maybe 7g or less, with some of it. It's an experiment but you need some cannabis in it to be able to see what's happening visually and not just intellectually. It's worth it. Decarb is up to you. Don't do a major production, unless you want to, maybe a single quick wash. Strain, filter then start your reduction. Since it's an experiment use a heated reduction. It's the same as a natural evaporation but faster, same visuals.

Watch your solution to see if it starts becoming cloudy and then some black specks start appearing and then black blobs. When it starts to become the least bit cloudy you'll know and if that never happens and you can take it all the way to the goo, you're in good shape. If it does happen then you have a couple of other things that you can do for your transfer.

You can still do your solvent transfer using the tincture even if it's already turned cloudy or blobby but it will take much longer because you'll have to evaporate off that extra water and oil and water don't mix. You have to get your oil hot enough, over 212°F, for the water to evaporate off the oil. When the oil gets that hot the water begins to sizzle and pop and sprays oil all around like water hitting hot bacon grease. It can sound like shots fired. It will eventually settle down with your transfer but it can get exciting. Of course, the solvent transfer goes freely and easily with 95%. That experiment can give you clarity.

The easiest thing to do if you don't have the high proof alcohol would be to evaporate the lower proof liquid down to the gooey oil and then just add that as your concentrate to your already prepared mct oil. You may need to use light heat and your sonic cleaner to get your bonding but 150°F or even less should be enough for that. You only need enough heat to get the oil to dissolve into your oil.

Now, having said all that, since you're using kief, you have a little more lattitude. You're not going to have a lot of alcohol that you would be working with but the water popping could be annoying. I think that you could possibly do a direct extraction to the mct oil from your kief using your ultrasound and very light heat like I mentioned about. That cleaner makes a lot of things easier. But of course, if you could do the freeze distillation then that would be the cat's meow.

Here's that old video. Sorry about the audio quality but you can see how it goes.

151 Tincture - Solvent Transfer to Coconut Oil Video Post 8432

 

Natural decarb would work but would take a few months. Maybe you could reduce it to the gooey oil then add some coconut oil to it. You can then decarb the coconut oil in the oven in about 2.5 hours.

 

Greetings, jaguar_flock, and welcome to our conversation.

So it sounds like you didn't decarb long enough, eh? That should be done at 240°F for 40 minutes for optimal effects. It's going to be difficult at this point to decarb it further using conventional means plus you have the disadvantage of living in FL where they only have 151 Everclear unless you get it mail order. The 151 puts a damper on everything.

Take a look at this video to give you some background and then tell me your process starting with the decarb and we'll go from there. There's a few things that you can do and we'll discuss that as well as your other points above.

Detailed Reduction & Concentration Guide w/video for 151 Proof Green Dragon

 

Howdy, CaptainToasty, and thanks for participating in our discussion.

Being a 50 year heavy cannabis smoker, I'm familiar with those side effects that you mention and we'll be happy to help you reduce those concerns. I'm glad that you mentioned that you're a multi-blunt daily user so that I can answer you more realistically.

First question I have to ask is the proof of your Everclear. That is going to make a huge difference and it will depend on where you live. Everclear makes a 151 & 190 proof. The majority of US states sell it although 11, I think, do not. "Everclear" brand in those states is only 151. The brand can even be bought in 151 versions in otherwise 190 proof markets. Just check the label to be sure. We'll assume for the sake of ease right now that it's 190. Other countries can be challenging.

If you were a bowl a day or even a joint per day person then I would tell you that the scenario you presented would be adequate but you're not. You're a stoner and because of that I won't waste your time with something that wouldn't be very satisfactory. So let's adapt.

If you get "fire" and you have a good source then your buds are going to be more than 10%. From my experience with testing, I'd tell you to start using 15% minimum for your calculations. Even black market buds are pretty high as long as it's not the imported stuff.

So that will make your numbers there a little higher, 11.7mg/ml and no, that's probably not going to be enough for a good dose although you would probably feel it. You'd feel that little bit because the GD is more bioavailable than other mediums. If you use it sublingually, that 11.7mg might be quite nice so it doesn't take as much as oil or butter or anything else in my experience.

That's not good enough, though. Heavy smokers, whether joint, blunt, dab or bong, are a bit more "jaded" and need a heavier dose to be satisfied. I speak from experience. So, you're not going to stop reducing at 3oz and you're going to keep going until you reach 2oz. That's where you should be able to use a .5ml and like it. You can continue to reduce as tolerance grows.

If you reduce it to 2oz instead of 3 then, using the 15%, that 1050mg total will be divided into less solvent which makes it more concentrated, 525mg/oz. That's 17.5mg/ml. Now, I know that it's hard to believe that a heavy smoker can even feel that let alone just half. I haven't really laid this out so plainly before or at least not in a long while and that's because nobody believes it. I have the lab tests, experience and nearly a thousand pages of everybody else's experiences to document it. Since you specifically asked, I figured that I'd lay it out again.

Personally, I reduce to 4g/oz for my usage. With a 7g batch that would be 1.75oz and with a 28g batch, 7oz final volume. I have found this to be good for me but I started at the halfway point, too. As tolerances increase, your concentration can get higher just by evaporating a little more.

 

You can grind loosely, like a joint texture, or leave the buds more intact. I like to just break them apart in my hands so I don't lose trichomes to the grinder then decarb. After it's decarbed you'll be able to break it up easily. I like to put it in the jar then use a spatula or other tool in the jar to loosen it up. That way all the trics are captured in the jar, the way I do it in the video.

Let me know if you have the 190 proof.