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Another Tincture Thread - Try it, You'll like it

Discussion in 'Weed Edibles' started by PsychedelicSam, Sep 4, 2012.

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  1. #9701 PsychedelicSam, May 3, 2016
    This is a great discussion, folks. Thank you very much for helping fill this glaring hole in our understanding. It's this kind of discussion that produces quality knowledge and I love it. I'll do a little more myself by getting that graphic up for the second natural decarb batch.

    Also, I was just responding to another thread about using/making a tincture with limonene extract and along with the limonene I suggested myrcene and went back through all our stuff and dusted off the myrcene graphic I've previously posted. As I was rereading it before posting I noticed a couple of things that ties in with this page's conversations.

    Below are the graphics for the myrcene and limonene while we're at it. We've mentioned how and why people may consider high grade Sativas as kick-ass Indicas. OneE's comments hit the nail precisely on the head and it's because of those influences by those other compounds-especially terpenes and even the esters/flavonoids-that can drastically change the profile of cannabis chameleon-like. And it's these compounds that actually give each strain it's characteristics that make it stand out from others. THC is just that, THC, and CBD is in that same category. Effects are the same time and time again. It takes those other compounds to fill out the rest of the picture. Cannabis is so great medically and recreationally because of the combined effects of ALL of the compounds working together. Yeast produces THC and other organisms produce CBD and each compound can be synthetically reproduced but so far no one has been able to fully recreate the effects of cannabis.

    What caught my attention was the next to last Myrcene bullet..." Levels >(above) .5% result in "couch lock effect. Doesn't need to be an Indica to experience "couchlock". Then I noticed other effects equate with many cannabinoids and may actually provide some of the effect we currently associate only with the cannabinoid. When the DEA reschedules cannabis it should be a pretty exciting time for research to see what's really what. :blink:

    Terpenes3.jpg Terpenes7.jpg
     
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  2. #9702 PsychedelicSam, May 3, 2016
    Last edited: May 31, 2016
    Natural Decarb Project
    3 Month Comparison
    Dark Star vs Pakistani Chitral Kush
    Natural decarb 3 month comparisons.jpg     ​
    I don't believe that any conclusions should be made with just one test or one study. Due to the nature of such things, the first time is seldom the charm. Ideally, I consider three times to be a charm and is why I like to have at least 3 tests to each study and preferably 3 studies to each conclusion but for now we'll just have to settle for 2 studies for now, so no conclusions-just comments.

    Due to the recent discussion I want to show the enzymal path and how it pertains to the CBD isomers, CBD & CBDA but first I need to mention CBGA which is not included from the lab. CBGA is like RNA is to the human body. It influences how much of and if the other cannabioids are formed and those influences are passed down by way of the CBDA. So, CBGA>CBDA, some CBG, some CBN and possibly some CBC with others too small to detect. Through enzymal action these compounds start changing and is why it's important to fully mature your plants before harvest if CBD in particular is important to you.

    We can see that over the course of the 3 months that the CBDA has decreased greatly with no significant CBD conversion, some but not like people think. Instead we see increases closely matching that of the CBDA with the addition/increase in CBG, CBC and some CBN but not as much as some might suspect.

    We see a lot of zeros in the values and that could be due to those values being too low to detect or sample error with the equipment which is more common than people may realize. That's why next month, 2 weeks now actually, we should get a better idea of how things really stand. We saw that with the Dark Star and I expect that with the other one also.

    Now let's go on to the reason for the tests in the first place and that is to watch our natural decarb unfold. Here I've included the raw, meaning undecarbed tincture, and the 3 month test results of both the Dark Star and the Pakistani. I have all the monthly tests for the Dark Star but other than the raw, just started sampling the second one at the 3 month mark.

    The Dark Star started out with slightly higher THCA conversion rate than the Pakistani, 21.6% to 16.6% of total THC. The 3 month point for each was 78.6% to 80.3%, very close indeed. However, we also see that the Pakistani converted at a higher rate than the Dark Star over that 3 month period. The Pakistani converted 62% of the remaining THCA while the Dark Star converted 58.7%.

    The Pakistani is easily usable now at the 3 month mark for a medical tincture because of the cannabinoid profile. Next month we'll see how it goes. The Dark Star was phenomenal after the 4 month mark and I regrettably have no more but I'm looking forward to the Pakistani and the next one and the next one and......

    It may be subjective but I have noticed a huge difference, almost a fulfillment, in the natural decarb. But what do I know? :ey:


    ​
     
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  3. #9703 mainah, May 3, 2016
    Last edited: May 3, 2016
    Here's another link that pulls information from SC Labs, make sure you watch the video. It explains the way CBD and other major cannabinoids are produced. It also lists a lot of actions attributed to CBDA as well as CBD, with a chart for known actions of many cannabinoids.
    Edit: The cannabinoid profile links at the bottom of the page are excellent as well.
     
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  4. #9704 PsychedelicSam, May 3, 2016
    There's no link, mainah. :)
     
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  5. #9705 OneE, May 3, 2016
    Hmmm.... I wonder how I missed that conversation.....
    But it does make me feel better - I thought I had lost the handle on 'sativa vs indica' perspective. I basically concluded that I'm 'intolerant' to high thc(ie light weight) and could never figure out how when two hits wreck me, others could keep ripping on a bong or finishing a joint and still be able to function....

    Sheds some light into the 'creeper' aspect of some strains --- another terp/noid interfering or counteracting the myrcene for a period until it 'lets go' and the myrcene can take effect.

    Out of curiosity, where does one find limonene or myrcene essential oils?
     
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  6. #9706 PsychedelicSam, May 3, 2016
    You can find them on Amazon. Several reputable companies make them but be sure they are food grade. When I searched online for them just now I came across something else that is timely for those interested in vape pens but not wanting to inhale glycerol products like pg, vg, PEG, etc. This is similar to the Timeless Vapes cartridges. It looks interesting and takes care of the viscosity issues. :)

    Terpenes - Buy Terpenes Online from Connoisseur Concentrates
     
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  7. #9707 mainah, May 3, 2016
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  8. #9708 PsychedelicSam, May 3, 2016
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  9. #9709 STIGGY, May 3, 2016
    [​IMG]
     
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  10. #9710 PsychedelicSam, May 3, 2016
    You look a little lost there, Stiggy. :wacko:
     
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  11. #9711 STIGGY, May 3, 2016
    LOL
    Ya reading my mind again
     
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  12. #9712 Tenka, May 3, 2016
    I've gotten lots of great new reading material the last few pages, thanks all. Quick question, is there any problem with winterizing a GD before reducing it? (in case it makes a difference, this'd be a 151 GD) I ask because after reduction I'd be much more shy about losing a few precious drops to filtering than I would before reduction.
     
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  13. #9713 PsychedelicSam, May 3, 2016
    That shouldn't be a problem, Tenka. The waxes and oils may not be as thick as with a concentrated product but they are still there and after all that work, every drop counts. :)
     
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  14. #9714 Jojo0420, May 4, 2016
    This is a great find Sam, thanks!
    I already ordered some d-limonene from Amazon, may have to check this out though.
     
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  15. #9715 OneE, May 4, 2016
    So - to continue the discussion on the perceived effects of sativas and indicas, I'm wondering if anyone has any insight as to how the proper harvest time plays into the equation as far as trichrome coloring goes.... I know for certain strains(Harlequin) that it is important to let them go far enough to get the proper strain profile.

    So, my understanding is that the trichromes go from clear - clear/cloudy - cloudy - cloudy/amber - amber. I've always heard you let the plants go till X% of the trichormes are amber - somewhere 15-50%. I keep hearing that if harvested more towards the clear/cloudy stage that the effect will be more heady/sativa-ish and if harvested more towards the amber side it will be more couch lock/indica-ish.

    I've been thinking that maybe too many people (including my growers) are harvesting too soon - which would make a sativa extra racy and make an indica rather dull (from a strain standpoint). This theory seemed to support my observations why there are so many intense sativas out there and why I've been disappointed with the indicas coming thru. I was chatting with the grower about this and he commented that when people see amber trichromes, they say 'I see you're growing some couch lock there'. Yet, it seems that everyone is looking for buds that are 'frosty and crystally' - which seems to push it back into the clear/cloudy range.

    So, my two questions (at the moment) are :
    [1] How much can the strain effects be influenced by the harvest time based on trichrome color? Can you really turn a sativa into an indica and vice versa? Is the difference really that large? Would testing be able to differentiate between the two - clear/cloudy vs amber - within the error range of testing?
    [2] What is really happening as the trichromes go from clear to amber? I used to think that it was a sign of increasing cannabinoid content, but now I'm believing that it revolves more around cannabinoid conversion - I just haven't seen anything saying what that transformation really is - only grower folklore.

    Anyone have any knowledge on this?
     
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  16. #9716 PsychedelicSam, May 4, 2016
    Your question almost makes me want to grow again just to test it out. I've always heard that you want all the trichomes at least cloudy and about a third amber but I would like to see some definitive research on that, too. I do know that it makes a difference, especially in a Sativa, but it wouldn't turn it into the another genus of cannabis. If you find the answers, be sure to let us know. :)
     
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  17. #9717 STIGGY, May 4, 2016
    Sam I sent an Email
    If you could when you get a chance THank You
     
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  18. #9718 STIGGY, May 4, 2016
    Dang I sure would love to see that
     
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  19. #9719 mainah, May 5, 2016
    This is another excellent conversation OneE. And it's another theory I would love to explore through testing someday. For now, I let my plants go until they enter senescence on their own, with many leaves yellow and dying, and Amber trichomes on those that will go Amber. I've had sativa strains that I didn't see any Amber after 12-13 weeks but they were all cloudy. Why no Amber? Who knows, but I think it's due to terpene content, and maybe other cannabinoids.
    I also believe what we're seeing is degradation of THC into CBN, and the conversion of other cannabinoids. It seems to reach the highest THC content, you need to harvest before Amber appears, or just as it does. That's my theory anyway.
    I have read reports of people testing at weeks 8 through 12 to find the best harvest date, and they seemed to lean in that direction, but for now I hold it as a theory only until I can prove it to myself.
    I like sativas but I don't like them too racy.
    As far as turning a sativa into an Indica, I don't think it goes that far, but you can tame a racy sativa somewhat by waiting I believe, but it may put you to sleep on the come down.
    If you test it we would love to know!
     
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  20. #9720 MF Bloomer, May 6, 2016
    Idk if this is relevant but last season i had to harvest one of my og kushs at 8 weeks and the other at 10.5-11 weeks. The first one was clear/cloudy and no amber and it was hardcore racy for me. The 2nd one was cloudy to amber and it got me to where i need to be but in return made me really tired. Never would've guessed it was the same strain if tested them side by side.
     
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