Another Tincture Thread - Try it, You'll like it

Each dropper from a dropper bottle is approximately 1ml. They hold more but the bulb is designed to just pull that much, more or less. One dropper @ 15mg is a pretty good dose from what I understand from those who've done it.

 

If the alcohol doesn't have a higher water content it won't dissolve those things. Alcohol and sugar are dissimilar and need heat or some other reaction to fuse otherwise it will just separate.

 

Yep, that's right. All about the density.

 

Heated Decarb Time and Temperature Analysis

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The first chart is our control. It is the raw material before any heat is applied for decarbing. We can see that it has an almost equal amount of THC-A and THC with just a hair more of the acid. These numbers played a role in the next test so make note. We see that we do have CBD-A but undetectable CBD. Note the amount of CBN in this sample. Moisture content out of the bag @ 9.7%. I have highlighted the values we're looking at on each of the tests.

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This next test is a little different than the others and is only here because of the decarb data. This is the tincture I made using a decarb time/temperature of 225F/20 minutes. I chose that time for this based on the amount of THC that had already converted, just about half, and I wanted to see if that made any difference in the time needed to finish that conversion while believing the temperature setting was adequate and what I was accustomed to using. As you can see, we only had about a 25% conversion of THC at this combination. We're looking at the ratios here and not the actual numbers although the milliliter and gram sample numbers are similar in a number of areas. The lab tells me this is an excellent medical tincture due to the total number of measurable cannabinoids, not just THC. Many of them are measurable because of the concentration in the GD and others may be influenced by the decarb. The only ones missing were the "V's". I won't detail the numbers here because of the concentration but note how what happens to those cannabinoids as we increase the heat and time. Also of particular note is the amount of CBD we've detected.

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This third test gets down to the crux of the matter. This is the time/temp combination that me and others have been touting for years now in good faith and it definitely shows a deficiency in the THC conversion. We only converted another 10-15% in comparison to the shorter time, leaving still quite a bit of THC-A. Close but no cigar. So, we know that needs to be improved but now let's look at the other cannabinoids, or lack thereof. Here I want you to note the increase in CBN from the raw to this one and the lack of CBD-A and CBD. Where'd they go? Well, THC isn't the only cannabinoid that easily degrades. CBD also degrades into CBN as well as another less well known cannabioid. CBD-A conversion to CBD is rare in a heated environment. I specifically asked the lab's chief chemist about what happens to the stuff since I had assumed that it worked like a THC conversion. It does not. It is affected by enzymatic action to CBG-A which then determines in what proportion the other cannabinoids are formed. CBG-A is the building block. You don't see that in these tests but they will soon include that essential cannabinoid. The heat and other factors can affect the enzymes that are released by the plant material. With enzyme action CBD-A can be turned into THC instead of CBD or directly to the CBN. If you're only interested in the THC then this is better than the last one.

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In this final test we see that the THC conversion rate is complete. There's still a small, small amount of THC-A left but it's negligible and within the test margin of error. Much of the other cannabinoid values are the same as the last one, zero, except for the CBN. Please note that it has risen with the increased conversion rate and there is still no sign of CBD's. So while you will be getting full THC, which is what most people think about, you're not getting too much more and it seems that it wouldn't be an issue with a recreational product but may be lacking in more complex medical effects. I'm making a tincture like #2 in order to see whether the concentration will bring up any other cannabinoids so that we can get a more concise appreciation of what's at play.

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I'm also tracking the other value on the chart, moisture content and will have more on that in the future. There will be follow up to the issues covered here and how they relate to creating the best cannabis profile for both recreational and medical benefits. I am in the process of determining how much is captured by a first and second extraction run as well as in a run of leftovers, what I call a "depleted" run. This is in addition to the dry natural decarb study and a natural decarb of tincture. I won't be adding any more before my vacation but when I return I'll have plenty to catch up on. I don't know if this was worth the "tease" but it's what I've got for now.

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Another little thing I'd like to add is that I also had my basic pain creme, as seen in the guide, tested just to see how it stacked up to the commercial ones, cannabis of course. The cremes and salves and balms I was able to find details from had a high range of 40-60mg of cannabinoids per 28g/1oz. My creme tested out at 0.44% of weight and that calculates out to 123mg per 28g and it's made from fan leaf.


I'm doing a lot of these little tests just to test my skills, mainly for personal considerations and as a quality check for this thread. If I'm going to be telling folks how to do things then my own products have to meet those standards. If they don't then I have to find another line of work. This is the first time I've been able to test my actual products for content and so far I seem to be passing my personal inspection.


I'm having more tests done this week although you may not see them until I return. I'm having tests run on a GD batch but differently. I'm having each run tested and then the final. Haven't you ever wondered if that 2nd run is worth the effort? I know the recreational folks have. If the alcohol is supposed to strip the cannabinoids within minutes then why bother with the second one. We'll see and you can make up your own minds. The medical users will probably want to stay with the double run.


I'm not running these tests to toot my own horn. I'm just as surprised by the results as anyone on both the decarb and the edibles, especially the edibles considering decarb data. You can tell I'm not doing this for self gratification because I'm basically admitting to a huge error in my previous writings about the decarb, even with other tests verifying my basic premise.


Over the next few days I will also start posting more specific analysis of the decarb study now that I have the main details posted. I hope they interest you.


BTW, I have also had test done of the leftovers, what I call a depletion batch with interesting results, too. Definitely worth it.

 

I agree and I was just getting ready to point out some things there. If you notice, as the CBD compounds disappear, the THC content rises. Now, that shouldn't be the case, especially the last two because they were chopped and blended all at once and then separated into 2 different dishes for the individual decarb runs. This action kind of lends credence to the information that CBD-A can lead to THC as well as CBD, depending on enzymal production.


Also, I'd like for you to note the large increase in CBN at the higher and longer heating ranges, especially the last one and since we now know that CBD can degrade to CBN, I'd say that could be part of the answer. The only place I've ever found CBD is in a tincture that's been concentrated and now I'm wondering if chasing CBD conversion from CBD-A isn't just a pipe dream. This same data could be key in why so many people have trouble getting more psychoactivity out of their edibles than couchlock and sleep.


As we saw in the second sample that was taken from a GD, there was a wide range of cannabinoids, including CBD, that were detectable and it is for this reason that I'm doing the 240/40 as a concentrated tincture so that we can see a little deeper into the matter. Sometimes a single type of test isn't adequate and opens more questions than it answers.


I'm beginning to believe that decarboxylation is only a piece of the puzzle and that there are trade-offs with the compounds. I'll be including terpenes for the tincture sample, too, so we'll get a good look at what's lost.

 

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I hadn't really planned on doing anything with the depleted test but since you ask, I'm posting it here. Please remember that this is the dilute version and I didn't reduce it because it is used for topicals mainly. If I do use it for edibles then I reduce it about 2/3. This only shows 4+mg per ml but when concentrated, that can make a pretty good edible. Also, a thing to note is that this is the leftovers from about 15 ounces of bud.

In order to save alcohol and increase initial potency I pour my alcohol from jar to jar. In other words, Mix, strain then use in the next jar, topping off if needed. I often will place the solution back in the freezer for a half hour to catch the chill again then use it on the next one. I don't go through a lot of hoops like the original GD, just pour, shake, strain and discard the materal...boom, boom, boom, quick and easy. After all, it's mainly a rinse.

I suggest you leave your 3 jars and do the same.

Notice the presence of the other cannabinoids.

 

I don't think it really matters if you combine them before or after reducing but I agree about mixing them. Mine is a combination of a bunch of strains of all genres. You can get some interesting results like that. I wouldn't add it to a new batch because that would completely change the profile of your new one, unless you didn't care and just wanted to check it out.


Every time I do a depletion batch it's because I've either run out of room in the freezer or I need the jars. But it's definitely worth saving and using if you've got the inclination. If someone's a grower and has a lot of material then I would say give it to someone who would use it if possible.

 

When I have that much leftover material I use a little over a liter of alcohol and finished with about a quart of dilute GD. Using the numbers on the batch I tested for reference, I would reduce it about 3/4, pretty much like you did, if I was going to make any edible. That would give you a potency ratio similar to what you have for a fresh batch. But I also will test it, not a lab test, to make sure it's at a good place or I reduce it some more but I've found that 2/3-3/4 reduction will give a really good product, just greener.


It's good for butter, coconut oil, sugar and other things where the color isn't going to turn someone off. However, a deep green honey or agave nectar that is being used as an elixir might look a little weird and may have more of a chlorophyll flavor.