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Another Liberty Down.....

Discussion in 'General' started by Mayor_LaLa, Jun 27, 2002.

  1. Our right to privacy just took a backseat to the "war on terrorism"

    FBI Begins Visiting Libraries

    By Christopher Newton
    Associated Press Writer
    Monday, June 24, 2002; 5:38 PM

    WASHINGTON –– The FBI is visiting libraries nationwide and checking the reading records of people it suspects of having ties to terrorists or plotting an attack, library officials say.

    The FBI effort, authorized by the antiterrorism law enacted after the Sept. 11 attacks, is the first broad government check of library records since the 1970s when prosecutors reined in the practice for fear of abuses.

    The Justice Department and FBI declined to comment Monday, except to note that such searches are now legal under the Patriot Act that President Bush signed last October.

    Libraries across the nation were reluctant to discuss their dealings with the FBI. The same law that makes the searches legal also makes it a criminal offense for librarians to reveal the details or extent.

    "Patron information is sacrosanct here. It's nobody's business what you read," said Kari Hanson, director of the Bridgeview Public Library in suburban Chicago.

    Hanson said an FBI agent came seeking information about a person, but her library had no record of the person. Federal prosecutors allege Global Relief Foundation, an Islamic charity based in the Chicago suburb, has ties to Osama bin Laden's terror network

    The University of Illinois conducted a survey of 1,020 public libraries in January and February and found that 85 libraries had been asked by federal or local law enforcement officers for information about patrons related to Sept. 11, said Ed Lakner, assistant director of research at the school's Library Research Center.

    The libraries that reported FBI contacts were nearly all in large urban areas.

    In Florida, Broward County library director Sam Morrison said the FBI had recently contacted his office. He declined to elaborate on the request or how many branch libraries were involved.

    "We've heard from them and that's all I can tell you," Morrison said. He said the FBI specifically instructed him not to reveal any information about the request.

    The library system has been contacted before. A week after the Sept. 11 attacks, the FBI subpoenaed Morrison to provide information on the possible use of computer terminals by some of the suspected hijackers in the Hollywood, Fla., area.

    In October, investigators revisited the county's main library in Fort Lauderdale and also checked a regional library in Coral Springs.

    At least 15 of the 19 hijackers had Florida connections.

    The process by which the FBI gains access to library records is quick and mostly secret under the Patriot Act.

    First, the FBI must obtain a search warrant from a court that meets in secret to hear the agency's case. The FBI must show it has reason to suspect that a person is involved with a terrorist or a terrorist plot – far less difficult than meeting the tougher legal standards of probable cause, required for traditional search warrants or reasonable doubt, required for convictions.

    With the warrant, FBI investigators can visit a library and gain immediate access to the records.

    Judith Krug, the American Library Association's director for intellectual freedom, said the FBI was treading on the rights it is supposed to be upholding.

    "It's unfortunate because these records and this information can be had with so little reason or explanation," Krug said. "It's super secret and anyone who wants to talk about what the FBI did at their library faces prosecution. That has nothing to do with patriotism."

    Krug tells worried librarians who call that they should keep only the records they need and should discard records that would reveal which patron checked out a book and for how long.

    She is frustrated by the hate mail she says she receives when she speaks out against the Patriot Act.

    "People are scared and they think that by giving up their rights, especially their right to privacy, they will be safe," Krug said. "But it wasn't the right to privacy that let terrorists into our nation. It had nothing to do with libraries or library records."

    Some libraries said they will still resist government efforts to obtain records.

    Pat McCandless, assistant director for public services for Ohio State University's libraries, said, "State law and professional ethics say we do not convey patron information and that is still our stance.

    "To the best of our ability, we would try to support patron confidentiality," she said.

    Is the alarm clock going off yet people????
  2. Reading shit like that just makes me sick. Every day it seems more and more that we are living in a police state. When is our fucked up government going to learn that if we don't change our ways we are heading straight into a totalitarian dictatorship. It pisses me off the most that everybody's rights are affected by terrorist actions. Whenever we do shit like this it shows that our government is afraid and the terrorists win, day after day.
  3. doesnt sound like were heading towards a totalitarian dictatorship...but a revolution eventually
  4. NAMRON! that is weird. you mustve sent some of your vibes to me because i was thinking the exact same thing when i read that. I am guessing that in the future there will be another successful revolution.
  5. ive always thought that revolution is necessary for improvement and growth...EVENTUALLY..it will happen...and i think it will happen for issues we face today..great grandkids life time maybe...fuck..with all this shit happening..maybe even towards the end of ours
  6. The violence of revolutions is generally proportioned to the degree of the maladministration which has produced them. --Macaulay.
  7. Very good point. I wish I hadn't voted for Bush, but like it would have really mattered anyway. Bush carried Mississippi by a LARGE margin. But I couldn't imagine how chaotic things would have been if Al Gore was president. It's a lose-lose situation for all of us.
  8. Man that shit makes me sick, I have a dual citizenship but I am almost prod to say that I am a Canadian!! Even though Canadian's take the flack about being bitches and peace keepers. I lost my citizenship to the USA because I was charged with trafficing, I don't think I would go back to live in the US because of the terrible laws against herb. I did my time in Canada (1.5 years) and I know that if I had of been in the USA I would have probably done 10 years. Don't get me wrong, I love the US of A, but Canada is so far ahead of them that its worth all the fucking taxes we pay! I'm sorry if this makes no sense but I am high as a kite and loaded and wanted to put in my 2 cents!!!
  9. "Revolution, the only solution,
    The armed response of an entire nation,
    Revolution, the only solution,
    We've taken all your shit, now it's time for restitution"
  10. .... and it is up to US to change this. make sure you vote! sure you might not think it makes a difference, just one vote, but how many people think that and DON'T VOTE? it makes a huge difference when it all adds up.

    go out there, vote, write your reps, make your voice be heard! that is one way to keep this country from being a dictatorship. if we sit back and take it in the ass and complain about it to each other instead of the appropriate audience, it will just keep going on until we have no rights left. but if we vote conciously, become active in areas we feel need change, we CAN make changes and we CAN take our government back from us.

    and don't vote for Bush in '04! he's got the DEA running full-duty violating state laws and breaking into medicinal clubs, had bin laden & didn't do shit, and has been using the terrorism issue as an excuse to diminish our rights and violate the constitution! you can't even publically voice your doubts of his abilitys without risk of losing your job, getting audited, or even jailed!

    this IS our country they ARE our tax dollars, the government should be working FOR us, not against us!!
  11. don't forget that there were more canidates in the elections OTHER than bush and gore. If i had been eligible to vote when they were running my vote would have gone to Harry Browne and other Libertarian party canidates. a vote to them is a vote not wasted.

  12. spot on! this is the same reason the Liberal democrats (and the green party and the Legalise cannabis alliance) in the UK don't get as many votes as they should... people think it's a wasted vote and just vote for one of the main two in an attempt to keep the other out.

    GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH! ...well maybe not..i'm quite partial to my life at the mo'. :)

  13. Sick thing is...it is illegal,one way or another to express the 2nd ammendment of the U.S.Constitution,,you will be imprisoned,or killed,if you try.,,now mainly due to gun laws...

    It is also illegal to speak out against the U.S. gov,,,you will be imprisoned,and fined,or killed for any attempt to discredit the system with true facts....

    Revolution against the Government will never be again accompolished in this country,,,the Gov will merely scoop you off to prison...

    Alcohol Prohibition(The Great Control Experiment) only failed,due to lack of authorities,to many were killed trying to tell people who thought they were free,they can't possess alcohol...now the police are an army,if they again rule for Alcohol Prohibition,,this time it may work,such as the W.O.D.,,plenty of cops willing to take you down....

    Just the way I see it,and some attorneys I talk to firmly stand on the fact this is not at all a free country....

  14. revolution is always possible

  15. revolution is only needed as a last resort to cleaning up a thoroughly corrupt system (or a completely out of date one).

    so i guess u guys do need one

    especially if u take heed of what ndicabud sez. ndica speaks the truth. its the sign of a government protecting itself against revolution the nastie way... and the reason they do that is because they know its close.

    modern american rule more closely resembles 1930's germany. and modern european rule (mainly, although i think it's getting less so thnx to denmark) more closely resembles liberal pionearing colonial USA! funny that huh?

    AND!!!! the US are teh ones most closely trying to do away with freedom of speach over the internet! what kind of deals do they have with Microsoft? have u guys seen what f*cked up big brother spy shit u have to put up with if u use windows XP????? it aint right i tell ya, it aint right!

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