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and this is why i stand by the propagandhi lyric "fuck the troops to hell"

Discussion in 'Pandora's Box' started by mooglekexin, Feb 20, 2004.

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  1. from http://electroniciraq.net/news/1367.shtml
    http://electroniciraq.net/news/index.shtml

    Detained and tortured by the US military E-mail this
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    Jim Loney, Electronic Iraq, 19 February 2004

    Ahmed is a 52 year-old farmer who lives on the outskirts of Bagdhad. He was detained and tortured by US forces at the end of January. Ahmed has 8 children. His youngest son is 11 years old. He grows vegetables, wheat, rice and beans, and is a driver for the Ministry of Irrigation. He asked us not to use his real name for fear of punishment from the US military.

    The following story is an edited version of his translated remarks. Ahmed met with Christian Peacemaker Teams and Occupation Watch on February 13, 2004. This is his story.

    ------

    One day, at the end of January, there was an explosion about 2km away. I was inside my house when we heard the voice of the explosion. We went to the mosque as usual to pray because it was Friday [the Muslim equivalent of the sabbath]. When we finished the prayers, we saw helicopters everywhere and we heard the news that the Americans came to my house and arrested my nephew who was visiting from another city. I told everyone in my family we did nothing so they will release him.

    My son lives in the next house. They searched his house and took his money. When they finished checking his house they were waiting for us. They arrested my son and I and asked us if we did this explosion. We said no. They asked us do you know who did it and we said no. The soldiers said either tell us you did it, or tell us who did it.

    They handcuffed me and took me to their car by grabbing the back of my shirt. They stopped their cars at the place of the explosion. They took me again by my shirt, showed us the explosion and then started beating us. They put bags over our heads so we cannot see who is beating us. They kicked me with their shoes.

    On the way to the camp, I asked for water and they beat me on the head with the bottle of water. I fell down when I was getting out of the car and somebody lifted me under my arms and threw me to the ground. They lined us up against a wall. Somebody kicked me, my head jerked and banged into the wall. I fell down.

    They took us at 1:00pm and we reached the camp at 5:30pm. We only had water for four days -- no food. And for all this time we were outside -- not under a roof -- and we can see nothing because we are wearing a hood.

    After I hit the wall with my head and fell down, they handcuffed me with my hands behind my back lying on my stomach. [Ahmed shows us his wrists. They are ringed with pink scar tissue.] They kept me in this position through the night and into the next day -- almost 24 hours -- and we weren\'t allowed to move our legs in that time. We could not sleep during that time because they would kick us. I don\'t know for sure, but I think they did this for a purpose, as a way to torture us and not give us a chance to sleep.

    Look at this. [His wife brings in a white tunic. Numbers are written in black marker across the front of the tunic.] This is what they wrote on me, to identify me.

    During this 24 hours, they brought some dogs. I could hear them searching and doing things with them. They didn\'t bite me, but I could hear the screams of other people being bitten.

    There was a translator and I tried to tell him that we cannot feel our hands -- it feels like they are cut -- but he said that\'s the way it is.

    The next day, they made us sit cross-legged with our hands handcuffed behind our backs and we are still hooded. The soldiers would come and kick us on the knee cap and you can hear them laughing.

    I was so tired, but if I started to fall asleep they would kick me. When you asked the translator to go to the toilet the soldiers would shout at you and kick you. You have to ask 10 to 15 times before they let you go.

    When you reach the toilet, they release your hands but you cannot use them -- they won\'t bend -- so sometimes you cannot control yourself.

    For all this time there was no food -- only water. It did not rain, but it was cold. We had to sit this way all through the night until the next day. This is the mark it made. [Ahmed shows us a quarter-sized, red scab on the outside bones of his ankles.] Then they made us stand for 24 hours. And so it continued this way for four days.

    Sometimes they would take me to another place, always by the neck, and sometimes they would let me walk into a wall. They interviewed me three times. Each time they took me inside a room before someone with a translator. They lifted the hood from my head. It\'s made of the same clothes the Americans use to make sand bags. They asked me for 3 to 5 minutes if I know someone who did it and then they took back. They were just looking for information.

    After 4 days, they told me I will go to have lunch. They took me in front of the wall and beside me was a dog. A soldier had a biscuit to give the dog and a piece of meat to give to me but I couldn\'t eat the meat because of its smell. So I told him give me the biscuit and give the meat to the dog, but the soldier gave the biscuit and the meat to the dog. [In Islamic culture, dogs are considered shameful.] They put the bag back on my head and took me back to my place.

    On the fifth day, again taking me by the neck and hitting me into walls, they put me in a car and took me to Scania Factory, a huge military base they built in Al Dora [a suburb of Baghdad]. It was not only me, I think, because I could hear other voices with me. They searched me, took my cigars and my lighter and my money, and put it in a bag. They said I would get it back.

    One of the soldiers spoke to me in Arabic. He said he will help me. He said he will put me with the group that has already been tortured. They took off the bag and freed my hands.

    They took our group inside a room and closed the door. There were beds inside this room, and blankets so you can sleep. I slept inside this room but there was no food until 9:00 in the night. They brought us the same food they make for the soldiers which is difficult for us to eat. Then we spent all of the night until the next morning. In the morning you can go to the toilet if you want. We spent three days in this room. There were 20 people in this room.

    After the 3 days, they took 10 of us and stood us against the wall outside. They said they will release us. They said when you reach the main road, stop a car and tell them you have no money and that you will pay them when you get home. They did not return my ID or my cigars or my money.

    I went to the main road, found a taxi and drove home.

    God says you have to tell the truth. For that reason I am telling you the truth.

    Ali, Ahmed\'s 26 year-old son, told his story next. He has three children (ages 1, 3 and 4) and is a driver for the Ministry of Education. Like his father he was hooded, handcuffed and received no food for four days.

    They put us in a dark room and we were sitting cross-legged on the floor. They took the bag off my head and an officer who was doing the investigation asked me with a translator about the explosion -- who did it, where I was. Then they put the bag over my head again and took me back [to where my father was].

    At the second time, they took my father first and then they took me. They told me that my father told them everything so now we want to hear the truth from you. I replied to them the same -- I don\'t know anything about the explosion.

    The third time, they put me inside the same room with the officer and the translator. They took the bag off my head and put me against the wall. He came really close to me and told me not to look to the left or to the right, to look just at him. He said you will answer my questions. But first he gave me four points to remember. Because I was nervous I forgot the fourth point and he beat me with his hand and I fell down. He asked me the four points again but I forgot the fourth point again so he kicked me in the groin and I fell down.

    He kept asking me about the explosions. He put his hand under my chin and lifted me up from the floor. While he was doing this to me he said if you vomit you must swallow it -- don\'t spit it out. Then he hit me with his hand and I fell and he kicked me with his shoes. Then he said if you refuse to answer my questions I will take pictures of your wife and your mother and your sister naked and I will put them on the satellite as a sex film. The last time he beat me I collapsed and I couldn\'t remember anything after that.

    The next day they used something like a needle on my neck and my back. I couldn\'t tell what it was because I was hooded, but it felt like they were poking me with a nail.

    When we were released after four days, they took us to the outside gate. We were 11 persons and they left all of us with our hands handcuffed behind our backs. We had to go to someone with a shop nearby and ask for a knife to cut our handcuffs.

    When they released me, they took 400,000 dinars (about $280 US) and my ID.


    Jim Loney is a member of the Christian Peacemaker Teams, a Chicago-based violence reduction program sponsored by Mennonite, Brethren, Quaker, Presbyterian and Baptist church organizations. Occupation Watch is a joint project of an international coalition of peace and justice groups including Bridge to Baghdad, Code Pink and Global Exchange. Both organizations are currently monitoring American human rights violations in Iraq.


    Page last updated: 19 February 2004, 11:43

    -------------------------

    i am so sad my first piece of newsi feel i have to post here is about this but it pissses me off Ssssssooooo much. thats a a fucking disgrace, and sorry to anyone who has family or firnds in the army but... fuck... that story is fucking evil
     
  2. first im sorry, but i dont believe everythng ive just read.

    do you think the farmers who had sadam said \"yea, he\'s hididng over there\"....naw
    our young people are put in a position where even the smallest mistake they may make could take there life,and the lives of dozens of others. even by an 11 yr old child with a dull knife.

    how do you think our captives are treated when captured?....at the very least id hope in a simular way. sent home alive.
     
  3. Anyone who was tortured that bad would have been killed. IF (and thats a BIG IF) that actually happened, they would not let him live to tell this story. Sorry, but I don\'t believe it at all.
     
  4. I really don\'t know what to say about this..

    Except........


    This is an edited story????



    So what is the unedited story??
     
  5. So, because its on a website (an Iraqi one at that), it has to be true? Its just more internet bullshit. If it were true, the real media would be all over it.
     
  6. why would america want to admit to this ??? and torture is all right then if its Iraqis then?!??!?! thats even worse !!!


    and Voices In The Wilderness are NOT iraqi, i got a booklet with an order from propagandhi\'s record label and i donated money to \'em :)



    i aint saying its completely true, if you admit torture occurs why is this completely disregaureded ??
     

  7. Nobody is admitting torture occurs. But if it did happen, I disregard it because theres nothing I can or will do about it. And if I cant do anything about it, I might as well just not think about it. Out of sight, out of mind. Its not my war. I didn\'t start it, and I didn\'t fight in it, so its none of my concern. I gave up giving a shit about the war a long time ago.
     
  8. Not too sure if all of the facts stick, but if this went on the way it did, it shows the same type of predjudice and racism we saw in the US towards islamic people. This type of shit makes me sick to read. I really can\'t think of much else to say, except for how distasteful and messed up it is.

    also, just because saddam tortured his people, does that mean our soldiers are allowed to go in and do the same?
    No. If everyone followed the \"eye for an eye\" principle there wouldn\'t be an earth left.

    Also, doesn\'t anyone think its odd that for a war that was declared over, the casualties are still racking up?
    When will this end?? And what will be the result?
    I\'m afraid to ponder the possibilities..
     
  9. All l have to say is \"Treat people the way you would like to be treated.\"
     

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