there are long standing precedents that say anarchy isn't good, why do countries have a government? b/c people cant do it themselves. NTM there will always be "the man" who has power, whether its labeled as a government or not. Would you want a Christian funded privatized police force? so Yes, be afraid, be very afraid.
I'd like to be in a small democratic/communist community government. Where everyone has a say, everyone helps each other out, and everyone has a roof over their head. Within an anarchic era.
we are all animals. our lives are funneled onto an orderly path where our activities are controlled and our energies channeled to serve certain purposes. the funnel is government man's first funnels closely resembled the hierarchy structures of todays primates, the most basic of governments. as man multiplied, maintaining order against chaos became more demanding of these systems and thus arose the complex funnels...monarchies, democracies, dictatorships. funnels are an unconscious creation of man and are as artificial as polyester. funnels were originally needed to protect man from wolf. they have been modified to protect man from man; becoming entities in and of themselves in the process. for example when observed through proper perspective a funnel will exhibit characteristic human behaviors: self-preservation and self-propagation. the value of these actions is of far greater importance to the funnel than are things so abstract and absurd as the happiness and well being of its subservient animals. no matter the complexity or size of the funnel it will always have its constraints - it can only accommodate so many and when it jams or disintegrates its animals are thrown back into the primitive world of chaos from which a new funnel will be established in a perpetuating cycle. anarchy is disregard for the funnel it is a return to a primitive era of man where the individual was not bound by the rules of others. anarchy is detested by funnels because it precipitates their failure and subsequently their demise. accordingly it is fought against vehemently both physically and psychologically by the funnels. anarchy is a curse when the funnel operates for the benefit of its constituent animals because it harms the fluidity of a decent life for man. but anarchy is a blessing when the funnel systematically disregards its animals and uses men as pawns in its chess game for dominance among other funnels. anarchy is the foundation upon which our "right to revolution" is based upon and is something that the founders of our current funnel consciously or subconsciously attempted to create room for, this was of course before the funnel took control...
we should fear and value anarchy without the threat of anarchy governments will grow bold and do whatever they like at the same time the toppling of any government will plunge its citizens into chaos the two evils must be weighed...most of the time the former is preferred over the latter because it prolongs stability, but as history as shown there are times when the latter is the better option for the people.
not so much the mode of anarchy that is important--the end result is a period of no government = chaos
Even with the threat of anarchy governments have grown bold and done whatever they like. And in this world societies with government has existed more that governments without. How can you say anarchy = chaos when we have been so under exposed to society without government?
EDIT: ok i think i understand what your saying "How can you say anarchy = chaos when we have been so under exposed to society without government?" well simply because it would. we got to where we are today Only because government controlled our animal behavior and allowed for population to increase...i mean even with 30 or 40 individuals if there isnt a way for peoples actions to be governed chaos will follow. people will cheat rob kill because were animals--to ignore this fact is to ignore reality. with a population of our size (fucking 6.7 billion!) if there is no government things will get ugly FAST. in small scale societies you can have peace among all individuals without much government but there is no such thing as absolute utopia. all societies require some sort of government whether it be a council of elders or a senate. read my response to your last question i think thatll clear up my position
We are not only animals, we are organisms capable of logic, reason and restraint. These simple aspects of humans have the capacity to completely dominate our animal instinct. This mastery of our animal instinct is known as discipline. The government simply paints the picture of what discipline should look like in an effort to create order. Why couldn't each individual paint his or her own guidelines of discipline? I know that it can be said people will paint some perverted pictures of discipline i.e as long as I kill less than 10 people today I am reasonably disciplined, but it can reasonably be assumed that people like that are not the norm, but the exception. If people are given an education which gives them the tools capable of making a logical and reasonable decision as to what discipline is then would a government be necessary? Would a government even be reasonable? Edit- I would say anarchy = chaos as of right now. But this is only because at this current state in evolution people are stupid and most refuse to make their own decisions and pay attention to their own observations. If we were a smarter people then we wouldn't need big brother to make our decisions for us, therefore chaos would not ensue.
do not think of government only as it seen today. government is any system that provides a disincentive to individuals to keep them from harming a greater good. for example a tribe killing or banishing a murderer is an act of government. it deals with the problem at hand and sets an example for the future and it has been practiced from B.C. people can be disciplined yes but that is not a fool-proof method to run a society on. i believe that neither you or i could claim such benevolence right now if we did not live in a world with such incentives to behave peacefully. discipline isn't enough to prevent animal behavior 100% of the time and that is where the need for government arrises. without government our species would never have existed--im not talking about the evolution of society im talking about the evolution of man. we wouldnt exist.
i dont see any realism in the belief that 6.7 billion people will ever be able to exist peacefully without government
Do not confuse the discipline I am speaking of. I am not saying spanking a child because he broke the neighbors window. I am speaking of self-discipline, knowing something is not good so you refrain from doing it, or doing something you don't want to do because you know it is for the greater good and not because someone else says it is. And are you implying that government is enough to prevent animal behavior 100% of the time. Tell that to Chicago. And I think you have it backwards without man government would not exist, atleast the government we have today. Man is not dependent on government to evolve, though I will not deny government has most definitely helped us along. But primitive times call for primitive measures. And 6.7 billion people can not exist peacefully with government. I think that is more of a reflection on the state of mankind as of current. We are intolerant people and from intolerance comes war.
i wasnt speaking about discipline i was trying to explain that government is a very broad entity "I am speaking of self-discipline, knowing something is not good so you refrain from doing it, or doing something you don't want to do because you know it is for the greater good and not because someone else says it is." can anyone do this 100% of the time? maybe, but can we ever expect the majority let alone everyone to behave like this any time soon? helllll no "And are you implying that government is enough to prevent animal behavior 100% of the time." Good lord no i am saying government is a mechanism we have developed in order to help us prevent animal behavior. "And 6.7 billion people can not exist peacefully with government. I think that is more of a reflection on the state of mankind as of current. We are intolerant people and from intolerance comes war." yes we are and we always will be that is why we have government.
I understand that government is a broad entity. No everyone will not behave like that anytime soon, but all aspects of life are gradual it is unreasonable to assume that it will happen soon. And as I said before primitive times call for primitive measures. Government is a primitive mechanism that while necessary at this current time, shall hopefully become obsolete as we evolve. It is unreasonable to assume that we will always be intolerant people. The intolerance of today is drastically diluted compared to the intolerance of say early Christianity. As understanding increases intolerance decreases.
I find your position on all of this surprising and amusing given your sig. Maybe we are more like minded than we both realize.
the way i see it our gov is a self-sustaining entity that has its own agenda and has little real regard for its citizens. today because of all the laws passed during bushs' term, your home can be searched while you are not there, you can be arrested without charge, held indefinitely without a lawyer, and legally tortured. even without such physical abilities, america wages its psychological war on its citizens. we are more concerned with whats going on in the cracked out world of television than we are in the world of reality and this produces cooperative citizens easy to manipulate. the american people are the enormous fuel reserve being injected into tha V12 engine which is our infrastructure, we are moving this rig but we are not the ones controlling it, that would be our politicians. and just where are we heading you might ask? with consistency towards the edge of the world. dont be fooled when someone says their "improving"--the best is usually just a slight left before heading right back on course. however we must think realistically, even if all this ^ is true and we get riled up to the point of revolution how will any benefit come? Can you imagine the survivors of a modern american revolution being any better off? Dont fall to idealism here because there is no way in hell that from the ashes a magnificent new community of people will form--remember the bolsheviks? The government no matter how evil it may appear on the individual level is a true master of supporting large communities of people and nothing but a government of its proportion can manage us successfully. this is why i never came out and said i am for anarchy, there is a balancing act. if our lives become so abused by the system that we would be better off in chaos then anarchy it is, but otherwise if you still wanna live around millions of people and want to be able to take a hot shower at 2AM in the middle of winter you need our government. however if you want to prevent the damage caused by this rig exploding which is a noble cause then...its your call
See everybody I know says that anarchy=chaos but I disagree. Anarchy simply means without government so what if government was never invented? Would the world be in complete chaos? If it were an eye for an eye kind of society that developed I believe the majority of people wouldn't commit a crime if they knew it would happen to them. The people that did commit many crimes would be killed thus eliminating "undesirables".