"An Inconvenient Truth"

Discussion in 'Science and Nature' started by AK Infinity, Jun 11, 2006.

  1. oh wow. imagine that a green tinted ferrari with solar energy converting surface. mmmm. i smell the birth of another biotechnology. biological photosynthetic solar power paint anyone? :D
  2. Again, what does it matter where I read it? I like cars, I like the magazine, it happened to be in there. The point is those are the numbers, not determined by an employee of Car and Driver, but by scientists in the field. Now I'm not saying we had no impact, and I agree if there were a lot more vegetation left alone CO2 would not be an issue at all. I'm just saying we're going about it all the wrong way. If we as a race reduce our CO2 emissions to nothing, so what? It's not stopping anything. May I also add (as most growers know) marijuana has the capacity to intake many times the CO2 in our atmosphere, so we actually supplement our plants with extra sources of CO2. This leads researchers to believe that the earth at one time had much more CO2 in the atomsphere. I don't think the cave men were running fossil fuel power plants back then.
  3. Ak I'm definately gonna check out that movie, sounds really interesting.

    Sad thing is though you can show people evidence of Global warming until their eyes

    bleed and they'll still deny it's happening. We are just too comfortable in our

    lifestyles. Making a change would involve sacrificing things in our daily life and most

    people aren't too fond of giving up leisures they already have. Not saying it's

    impossible to get people to care before it's too late, just improbable.

    Putting my faith aside for the moment.

    If we are here on this earth as Global Warming damns us all Nature will go back to

    the basics. Survival of the Fittest. The lucky ones will survive and live to share the

    tail of how Americans' greed and lies became the downfall of Civilization.

    But, IMO everything that is happening is all apart of a greater plan. Everything has

    a beginning and an end. We are in the end. All the pieces of the puzzle are starting

    to come together and soon, soon we will see the bigger picture. Praise God
  4. warning: i don't know when this reply stopped being a direct responce and became an open rant to all, but it happened pretty quick and was in full swing long before parfum ever came up again. thankyou

    its alright mate, i don't think anyone was having a go at you. no need for the excessive defensive.

    i agree, CO2 is not the biggest issue. but to play it down serves none. it still could do with alot more representation. this thread and the film that inspired it are just the hotspots on the issue, there's a whole world out there not hearing anywhere enough about this yet. I'm quite glad you posted it as it does give a rough idea of what some of the big players in pollution (talking gases, not corporations or nations) are and in what ratios they are in. although one bit, as someone who researches (a researcher) i disagree with, that CO2 levels were much higher "at one time", or at least to say so is misleading. IF it were true, globally, then it would have been several ice ages ago, most probably several million years ago, perhaps even back to the original algae life forms when it would have first been produced.

    CO2 is vital for plants to breath, but too much and they become saturated, putting it back out. so although its not the biggun, there is a cap on how much we can accept unless we're forced into a very sharp swift wake up call of extremes of mother earth shifting to readress the balance, ie, ice age.

    I think i recall that its something like 300 parts per million is optimum, and 2000 parts per million is CO2 saturation point for cannabis.

    NO3 and CH4 are less required and less absorbed by plant or animal life. and so we should be watching them more closely as their levels are less inclined to be absorbed.

    what really gets me though is none of these. it's the major toxic polutions that strike me as the most alarming and most imperative we sort out and rid ourselves of. for example, parfum. and please, no one tell me any shit like "what harm does parfum do, it just smells nice" or "its only there to carry the smell". i know why it's put in, but do you know why we should take it out? It is a known carcinogen. "so what!? there are millions of known carcinogens we consume every day" i hear the more flipantly apathetic say, well, not only a carcinogen... but it is a non-biodegradeable catalyst to cancer. thats right... let that sink in for a second. still not getting it? it's a catalyst. meaning, it does what it does and comes out unchanged from the chemical reaction to do it again. non-biodegradeable, meaning, short of some genius piece of engineered specific filtering on a global level, theres nothing in nature to get rid of this stuff. this stuff can get into your skin, and right through to your bone marrow, it can get anywhere, and when your a pile of dust, a once huge mass of tumour, the parfum will still be there, giving the worms cancer. getting the idea yet? now get this. it's already found in every drop of rain that falls on planet earth. it wasn't like this just a mear few decades ago. so, with this knowledge being out there available for everyone... you'd think we'd stop pumping this stuff out right? maybe the message just hasnt reached the right people. can you sitting there do me a favour right now, get up, go to the bathroom, and check the ingredients on your bottles of shampoo, conditioner, soap, deoderant, antipersperant, hairspray, aftershave, etc etc etc etc... and see how many of them contain some of this known catalyctic carcinogen.

    and next time... think before you call me or someone like me a "smelly hippie". highly inteligent persons pursueing interesting endeavors often stumble across this information and awareness of what they are doing to their bodies and to their planet and realise its really not worth the hidden environmental & health cost to flutter one's financial resources away on trying to decieve potential mates about how they smell. water and my bodies natural cleaning ability is all i need, and beyond that i now live by the rule, if i can put it in my body i can put it on my body. smell me. i keep my thyroid in good check. my body odour is quite quite acceptable, because i'm not fooling anyone, especially not myself.

    oh it's good to rant.

    but please, don't think Parfum is the only poison the pharmaceutical giants are pumping out from ignorance, apathy and stubborn habituation. most things in your cosmetics are brutally toxic. hence why i like my women how i like my, um, my... everything else. clean and natural!
    take sodium lareth sulphate (and sodium lauryl sulphate), it's put there why? it's not a detergent, it doesnt really do any of the cleaning... all it does is create the bubbles. thats it. and if you knew the stuff it causes... yeesh!
    yeah, thats a point.... why don't we have potential side effects writen on cosmetics like we do on toxic medications yet?
    forgive my impatience, but i expect better. nae, demand better! better best now, best better now, best now, Aum, better best now, for the best best is ever better, better best now Aum! :)
  5. Bro, it does matter where you get your information from because it's not in the best interests of "Car and Driver" to tell the truth about what human beings are doing to the environment. No serious person with a brain denies how human beings are impacting the environment. It just seems a little strange to cite a magazine instead of a environmental impact study. Most times people will simply accept information their good senses are telling them is wrong all so they can continue to have the luxuries in life. Knowing the truth demands a certain level of activism, because if you choose to do nothing, truth turns in complacency, and complacency turns into the modern world. I love cars too, but I love clean air even more. It's surprising how natural resources become important when they are no longer readily available in large amounts. Take fresh water for example, it's available in any average tap, but if it weren't we'd be slitting each other's throats for a fresh glass of it, oblivious to how we arrived at that sorry state to begin with. Everyone's free to make their own decision about how precious life is, let's hope that whatever choice they make considers everyone and not just the individual.

    Here's a non-car related site: http://www.climate.org/topics/climate/co2jump.shtml

    You know Shouse, I believe in God as well but I wonder how much of what happens in the end he/she/it has put in our hands? I think about this a lot because of the logic of it all. Why would a God that has crafted these amazing minds that can determine our fate for good or for ill suddenly step in and say "time out people I'm God and enough is enough?" IMHO that would suggest that God does not hold us accountable for our actions in terms of the results.

    "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting."

    ~Galatians 6: 7 - 8~

    Don't et me wrong, I believe that God is in control but what he/she/it has given to us is the power of choice and the consequences that follow. Anyway...

    Stay green bros.
  6. yeah, we can all pick cherries like the best presidential speach researcher.

    i really do hope we're on the edge of the beggining of satya yuga. it would be really nice.

    popular jain cosmology (as i know it) suggests so. and maybe when earth aligns with galactic core (2012) everything will be in place and we'll understand so much more... but hey, no point dawdeling about that, we've got a world to save in the meantime, and save ourselves too. its simple, save the world and the world saves us.

    ps, fuck it's been reeeeeeeeally abnormally hot this past couple months. anyone need to watch the "some like it hot" cartoon again? hi mister sunbeam!
  7. Alright, I'm gonna say this again. Just because I, a reader of Car and Driver and not Global Warming Weekly, read those numbers in a magazine about cars, it does not make it any less valid than if Al Gore spewed the words from his mouth. He won't of course, cuz he wants attention and global warming is his ticket back into the spotlight. THE NUMBERS ARE WHAT THEY ARE. No matter where they come from. Now if you STILL are so ignorant to say those numbers are false and mean nothing, then correct me, prove me wrong. Come up with the "real" numbers, Al Gore's numbers. This world has MUCH bigger issues than it getting hotter. It's not our fault, we cannot stop it, the oh so mighty human race is finally at the mercy of greater forces we do not understand. STOP trying to find a lame answer for it. We can't fix everything. Just cuz Bruce Willis saved the world from ending we think we can stop anything. And ACTUALLY, it's pretty cool in New England for August. Talk about whining that we won't get to drive our 12 second quarter mile cars anymore...OO it's too hot out. Well ya know what I do? COOL OFF. Adapt. It's what we as humans do. Embrace global warming, it's coming whether you all like it or not.

  8. Bro chill out. If you can't address the subject without language like this stay off this site and find one where addressing people as "ignorant" is acceptable. I'm not going to play childish games anymore with people that want to be argumentative. You stated your thought and I stated mine with a website for you to look at. If you're still unconvinced fine, let's leave it at that but I'm not going to waste posts with back and forth nonsense.

    My point isn't to "prove you wrong"--we’re all persuaded when we wish to be--but my responsibility is to offer you alternative information so you can do a little research on your own. I'm not going to do it for you, because if your intellectual curiosity doesn't extend outside of the numbers you get from a magazine I honestly don't know what to tell you. My intention is to try to make the world a better place by recognizing my impact on it. This thread was made to suggest people go see "An Inconvenient Truth," not to start arguments.

    Here's another link: http://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/~tk/climate_dynamics/climate_impact_webpage.html

    Thanks for your thoughts.

  9. See I think everything has been put in our Hands. But, God already new before

    he created Adam and Eve what the outcome would be. That's just how it is when you

    have every power there is to have. It be like take every super hero that has ever

    been created and just making one with all the powers. God is just that Amazing.

    I don't think he steps in just to say enough is enough. When he does decide

    to come back and save those who Believed I'm Positive he has a Cosmic reason

    for doing it in that particular way and Time. That's why Faith is not as easy as one

    would think. NOBODY knows when and in which manner God/Christ comes back.

    Even Christ said He didn't know the hour nor day. Our minds are like a grain of

    dirt compared to his Majestic way of thinking. We just couldn't comprehend it.

    That just goes to show how nothing we are compared to him and yet he still says

    we Are worthy to be loved by Him.

  10. golly some people are upset easily. its all in your head man! calm down! i dont recall anyone making any claims that what you quoted was false. but now... you've just gone a bit far.

    pretty cool in new england for august eh? would you say unusually so? :p climate change. climates do change yes.

    imagine you have a tank that has a hole in it. imagine now you start pouring liquid into the tank faster than it's leaving through the hole. what do you think is going to happen to the tank... and more importantly, the floor around the tank, and your feet.
    you'll spill and get wet, if you don't either A) increase the size of the hole that the liquid is leaving, or B) decrease the rate of liquid being added. or a combination of both.

    what we as humans have been doing is;
    increasing the amount we add, and increasing the amount we've been increasing by( !!! )
    decreasing the size of the hole that lets the liquid out (i.e. chopping down forrests)

    taking a snapshot of the ratios as they stand does not give the complete picture. it completely ignores the 4th dimension to this. TIME. come, come join us on the other side of "E=mc2"! :D character assasinations as amusingly dramatic as they are in heated debates as this don't really add any providence of worth.

    SO QUIT SQUABLING MY CHILDREN! screams the many eyes & ears of the great entities as they observe us tussing and frowing over TRIVIALITIES, when theres the real issues & teachings right before us. enhance your calm, be at peace, live in harmony, ETC!


    "When he does decide

    to come back and save those who Believed I'm Positive he has a Cosmic reason for doing it in that particular way and Time."

    sounds like you think "he"'s not here.

    how can the omniprescent leave? :p

    many avatars, many abilities, many purposes, many bendings of the light. if all avatars of the devine had all the power of the really massively wow and impressive types like krishna, why then would we even bother be here to learn the lessons we're learning. anyways, thats just one of my takes on it while adding travels of other avenues of thoughts created from other lenses. wordiggles :rolleyes:
  11. I don't necessarily disagree with you, but where our points go in slightly different directions is that I think God's cosmic plan can continue without us. (The arrogance of mankind places us above every other living organism and at the center of the universe.) The power of choice IMHO wouldn't be as powerful unless man's fate was involved. According to the beliefs of some Christ will return to claim his faithful in what's called "the rapture of the church.” There are some scriptures that back up this theological doctrine but I don't subscribe to them as much anymore because God has shown me that the precious fragility of life should be preserved, not abandoned for a heavenly hope.

    "Some people are so heavenly minded that they are no earthly good."

    ~Oliver Wendell Holmes~

    Where in scripture does God protect man from the consequences of his actions and how does having faith help? God is about love and life so if we can't see how damaging the environment is disrespectful to those concepts then how will "faith” matter? God isn't merely a being that serves the ends of mankind but is Lord over all things, and as it happens human beings are bent on destroying a majority of those things on our world. I can't imagine that this blatant violation would fit nicely into a theological construct that neatly eliminates the catastrophic effects of what we do.

    I do believe in a cosmic plan but I believe such a plan involves a myriad of species on a myriad of worlds. Look at the size of the universe certainly one couldn't think that all of those stars are simply there for us to make wishes on. If God is limitless why would we limit our idea of what God is and what he/she/it can do?

    …Just a thought.

    Stay green.
  12. dangerous talk of extremes.

    think, rethink, review, relax, restrain, reprieve, rethink review, relieve recive retreave, rebreath. ahh.

    rethink rethink rethink. repeat! :D

    oh, and as for other life out there... check once again, the drake equation. here's some you can actually input your own figures.
    http://www.station1.net/DouglasJones/drake.htm "beyond the drake equation"
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation#External_links and the wikipedia on the topic.


    uhh... what happened then... i felt a bit... *shrugs* and then theres all this caps writing on my screen. must be important i'll leave it there.

  13. Oh please you guys, let me get riled up. I don't discuss politics any other way. I can't stand the cold subtle "talking" of old men. I have nothing but the utmost respect for you both Digit and AK, don't get offended. My voice isn't heard very often.
  14. Bro when I read this tears came to my eyes because you have made a point I let slip by me. Your voice is just as important as ours, and to be honest I probably over reacted in my response because I've been feeling tense about people being mean and disrespectful to each other at GC. Everyone's opinion should be duly considered and heard. It can be frustrating when you feel you aren't being given the proper respect you're due by someone even if it's just a simple acknowledgement of a differing point of view.

    I have very high respect for you because you've demonstrated a grace I was unwilling to find in myself, humility. Nobody's perfect eh, least of all me?

    “Humility does not mean thinking less of yourself than of other people, nor does it mean having a low opinion of your own gifts. It means freedom from thinking about yourself at all.”

    ~William Temple~

  15. I definitely understand about the nastiness that's spreading on here, even in the short time I've been a member. It's hard to tell whether someone's being a genuine jackass or just a little sarcastic on a forum post, and I guess I shoulda thought of that before typing an seemingly angry post. That's just the way I argue in person, I like getting into a heated conversation, but never angry or disrespectful, and I appologize if I was. I still don't buy global warming though :p
  16. I once belived global warming could never be possible, i mean look how large the earth is compared to humans. But now i will tell you i belive global warming is definately taking place. I still question wether or not it is being brought about by humans but without a doubt it is nothing to be put on the shelves and wait till it is to late.

    In the documentary Gore is not shoving the theory down your neck, he is trying to suggest the little things we can do to help the environment. By no means does he say dont drive your car, dont take a shower, dont watch tv. Simply just conserve because its not going to be here forever, especially at the rate we are consuming today.
  17. Not to sound pessimistic but i believe it's too late to turn things around, although that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
    I also believe that the masses of people would never fully practice anti-global warming tactics even if the truth of it all hit them right in the face, because most people have grown to the stage of moronic wilderbeasts that can't think or act for themselves...
    and not even just at that, the level of pollution that mostly affects the planet are corporations which they couldn't care for shit about the planet as long as the dough is still racking in. of course this leads to the government and how they limit pollution, but of course business and the government are pretty much the same thing
    if we want to save the planet, or atleast stall it's eventual destruction, i think we would need a huge reformation in just about everything we do, even the way we think. I'm not so sure if people are ready for that big of a change

    but anyways, i'll always being do what i can on my own to decrease waste, this planet is too beautiful imo to just trash away
  18. So what are we to do then, throw up our hands and succumb to the same forces that have brought us to the brink of annihilation? Or do we roll up our sleeves and become determined to pull out of the death plunge we're in? I say we fight for not just our place on this world but for a space in the universe as well. The governmental and corporate forces aren't winning this struggle, it's more that mankind has become lethargic from the weight of its own dreams. The modern world is an amazing achievement but compared to what our brains are capable of producing it's as nothing. The global crises facing us are considerable but let's remember that we're ultimately in a conflict with our natures not nature. If we believe there's no hope then there's none but if we believe there's something worth fighting for lets start thinking of ideas and options. Everything that's been created in this world first started as an idea in someone's head, similarly the answers are there as well. No idea is too radical or foolish to be considered if it will bring us closer to a solution. Our shortsightedness has brought us to this sorry state and it will be our vision that gets us out.

    Dinosaurs walked the earth successfully for some 200 million years and human beings are whining after just a paltry 50,000? Funny thing is though the dinosaurs that had much smaller brains managed to survive for quite a long time but we humans that have such enormous ones are full of self-pity and pessimism.

    “We abuse land because we regard it as a commodity belonging to us. When we see land as a community to which we belong, we may begin to use it with love and respect.”

    ~Aldo Leopold, A Sand <ST1:pAlmanac~</I></ST1:p

    I'll throw up my hands and give up like so many often do when I'm dead, until then...

    Stay green.

  19. ditto to ya man.

    ya know, if we were "knuckle heads" we'd never get to this stage of apparrent resolvement. so lets all give ourselves a pat on the back. :)

    i don't buy into global warming either. i buy into us waking up to our reponsibility for our home. all of us. i see it happening everyday, more and more people are catching on to the importance of our times. the importance of our actions. concepts like consciencious consumerism, ecco business etc.
    it's happening.

    I've been there. it's not pleasant. very much unpleasant. but there comes those times when you make a choice, to be part of the problem, throw it all away and to say things like "to hell with it" and buy an SUV... OR, you try the path of least damage, even harm reduction, despite expecting the worst, knowing from experience, that the worst rarely happens... OR.... something else get's in touch with you and you beggin a path of learning how many more parties with a vested interest in this planet there may be...........

    we should not only "try", we should do. switch on your awareness. every act you take has an effect on this planet. and fret not over the ones you percieve to have harmed it, harming yourself with unforgiveness is no use either, often, we can unconsciously initiate a tipping point, where things get so bad so quick that others can see the change and react to correct it quick enough (the frog jumps out of the pan).

    oh, and where you see moronic wildebeasts, i see habituation. learn how to change habituation, and you've got it solved. be with that person you see before you, allow yourself to see it from their perspective, and gve them the piece of the jigsaw they need to make a change in themselves for themselves, for society, for the environment, for the universe, for themselves.

    governments and corporations, as much as they try to manipulate public opinion and market forces for their own means, do still take their que from us all, remember, they need us more than we need them, and so, the more of us that shift towards the green, the organic, the ecco, the more of them that will shift to accomodate this also. the rate of change towards organic in the UK is comparable with the rate of ecconomic materialist growth in china. if industry can be inclined to read ahead and get ready for this shift in expected standards for our material comodities the whole thing can still easily shift enough in 5 years to almost completely diffuse the whole situation. this is of course with the inclusion of technologies to reverse various areas of damage as well as just reduce continued damage.

    like my sig says... we're not fekked, yet.

    at some point in the future, we'll have to solve the expansion of the sun issue. but right now, the two global thermostat issues are the chemical composition of our atmosphere (Ozone, CO2, NO3, CH4, all the rest, Water content, amount of vegetation to replenish our oxygen,etc) and taking into consideration that as of last year Earth began its 100,000 year shift to move closer to the sun. the two combined means it will become increasingly hard to ignore.

    also... this may be a little hard for some of you to even contemplate accepting, but, there are things in place that prevent what has happend from being as bad as it could have been given the inputs into the equation. there are more checks and balances going on that we are comonly aware of yet. if we improve ourselves, we might just all get to know our neighbours for this first time in thousands of years.

    keep it green. or don't. it's up to you. i don't really mind either way, because if you don't there will only be one way out of the mess, and that would be to grow cannabis in vaster quantities than has ever been seen on this planet before. just don't let it go too far before you realise this, or the other methods might not be able to catchup. g'luck, love, peace, and well being to you all. make it so.
  20. very true, like i once read a quote, "there are no laws in the universe, only habits, and habits can be broken."

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