America infuriates me at times (in regards to georgian "conflict")

Discussion in 'Politics' started by GolgiApparatus, Aug 14, 2008.

  1. #1 GolgiApparatus, Aug 14, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 14, 2008
    This whole thing just kind of makes me angry.

    USA is having talks with Russia about invading other countries...

    What do you think the US has been doing for the past 10 years?

    We have no right to police the world at all, let alone try and meddle in other countries business which has no impact on us what-so-ever and its on the other side of the world.

    John McCain vowed "we are all georgians today".

    Is he TRYING to start conjuring cold war-esque relations with Russia?

    Seriously? How can anyone vote for this guy?

    In a recent speech he talked about how him and the russian president were friends and talked daily.. when he couldnt even pronounce his name remotely right.

    Russia chose the perfect time for its attack for 2 reasons

    1. the olympic games
    2. it understands how stupid and incompetant of a president we have, and acknowledges the fact that the bush administration will not dare and try and do anythign besides sending meager medical supplies to georgia on the grounds that the US people WILL take legislative action against him and his administation.

    People dont seem to understand the term "none of your business".

    Who cares if russians are killing georgians or vice versa?

    It may be bad, it may be corrupt, but as a country it is none of your business.

    If we try and enforce our ideas on other countries then we are no better then the false lable of "terrorist" which we try to stick onto our "enemies".

    Im sorry but im not trying to have sore relations with Russia just because our current candidates are trying to win points with the people by saying the harshest police-ish thing possible.

    People dont seem to ultimately understand exactly WHY Russia is invading Georgia. Georgia is trying very hard to join NATO...
    What people are forgetting is that this country boarders Russia...
    And to have a NATO country boardering Russia is not good for Russia.
    It wants to have its protective "circle" of countries boardering it.. it dosnt want to have military NATO installed bases right up the street from Russia.
    So? The best thing to do is to simply go in, and "absorb" Georgia into the Russian government, which will ultimately be better for the people of Georgia.

    Quote from John McCain:
    "Russian President [Dmitry] Medvedev and Prime Minister Putin must understand the severe, long-term negative consequences that their government's actions will have for Russia's relationship with the U.S. and Europe," he said Monday, the latest in his harsh words for Russia".

    Are you STUPID? Do you really think the Russians CARE what the US has to say about INVADING another COUNTRY?

    Do you think the UN cares what the US has to say after it condemmed its entry into Iraq?
    Do you think anyone cares about the relationship it has with the US with its failing dollar, economic status, and incredible debt due to a stupid war?

    Of course not. We are just trying to speak tough but as quoted by CNN, "U.S. officials said they warned Saakashvili not to provoke Russia militarily by sending Georgian troops into South Ossetia and they had ruled out any U.S. military action to defend Georgia."

    And to put the final tip of the hat on stupidity on the US side, Russia humored the Bush administration by, almost jokingly, giving the US an "ultimatum". To choose between Russia or Georgia.

    To which our wonderful "peacekeeping angel" secretary of state Condoleeza Rice replied quote "As to choosing, the United States has made very clear that it is standing by the democratically elected government of Georgia,".

    Terrific. Terrific.

    Also one final thing: How many of have actually HEARD of the country of Georgia before all of this bullshit? We're trying to act all loving and tough but the people dont even understand what the country of Georgia is.

    "we are all georgians".

    Name 2 cities in Georgia John McCain and maybe ill listen to you.


  2. This part made me smile. I thought by now Bush has made it pretty clear that he will do whatever the fuck he wants with no consequences.

    I agree with you wholeheartedly that the United States government should stay out of this conflict... I'd also like the $1.5 billion in military aid we've "given" to Georgia back.

    But "they" are invested in Georgia... and they secure their investments.
  3. This whole thing is over oil. We want a pipe line for Caspian seas oil without it going thru Russian territory for obvious reasons.

    Whether or not you agree with the United States "liberating" Iraq, there is a difference between us going into Iraq and Russia going into Georgia.

    Saddam Hussein continuously broke the cease fire agreement that he signed as part of the surrender of the Iraqi forces in 1991. The U.N. issued sanction after sanction and this man ignored them. We have proof he was responsible for mass killings, even Bill Clinton called for regime change. Whether there were WMD'S, I don't know and am not arguing that point, but either way, as soon as he violated the cease fire agreement that "he" signed, we had every right to go back in.

    Georgia is a U.S. ally, with a democratically elected president governing a sovereign nation. That would be equivalent to us invading Mexico because of the problems on the border and illegal immigration.

    I'm not trying to justify the Iraq war, but you cant fairly compare it to Russia's yearning for the glory days of the cold war either.

    Whats next the Ukraine? If i lived in Europe, i would start paying attention to this real quick.

  4. I'm glad someone around here sees things the way I do.

  5. I'm telling you man, Russia wants to re-claim some real estate.
  6. Oh, you might listen to me anyway. Are we talking about people here, or Georgians, that are dying? However, I'm not at all implying we should use our military there... Real diplomacy might be good, however. If worst comes to worst, Putin v. the leader of Georgia: boxing, best of three.
  7. I agree. I have been saying for some time now, those Reds are up to no good!
  8. You're usually pretty spot-on, but what the hell?

    Georgia broke the cease fire! They bombed the hell out of S.O. and killed hundreds, if not thousands, of innocent citizens.

    How is Russia's defense of a long-standing ally they promised to protect a "yearn" for glory?

    Its also a strategic area with oil resources, of course they are going to protect it from Georgia (btw we propped up their "democratically" elected president via 2003's "Rose Revolution") and the US. They don't want the area going to NATO.

    I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here, why is everyone against Russia? They aren't the Soviet Union anymore...
  9. While you have some very valid points, you're seeing situations as black and white. For example:

    You're correct. The problems going on in Georgia are bad and are corrupt. Neither side is innocent; only the people dying are. And yet it persists. Many people say "It's not our country, stay out". Germany never once attacked America in WW2, and yet we invaded. Why? Because it was our duty.

    One thing that most people choose to ignore about being a super-power is something I like to call the Regulatory Duty. As a super-power, our country is force to act as a regulator for many things going on in the world, regardless of it if directly affects our country. Why? Because we must. As a super power, we must be constantly focused on ways to better the entire world, not just our country. Power brings responsibility, and America must fight for justice due to this responsibility.

    That being said, other super-powers need to stand up and pitch in as well. While it is our duty, it is not a duty we must shoulder alone.

    Side note : if you think America sticking it's head in to other people's business is new, it's not. Super-powers have been doing this and have been forced to do this since the dawn of time. The only difference is, we don't annex countries we help to our empire after the face.
  10. #11 JudasCanna, Aug 15, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2008
    Geogia wants independence from Russia. After the USSR split, we have recognized Georgia as a separate nation.

    When we said, "Hey, we aren't part of England anymore, piss off.", and the british came here to try and keep us. We fought them off.

    Georgia is doing the same thing. They don't want to be part of Russia, and aren't as far as we are concerned.

    Either way, we don't have the military to fight our war and theirs. We lost most of our military while and after Clinton was in office.
  11. #12 aaronman, Aug 15, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 18, 2008

    Sorry. :wave:
  12. Georgia is who started the war, not Russia or not even America, it is not our responsibility to take care of every country, how about helping the people in our own country instead of outsourcing to everywhere else.
  13. Sorry dude, calling me names isn't going to proove your point though.

    I'm neither for, nor against what's going on over there. I'd rather be living in Australia. But just becuase I don't care doesn't mean that I'm blind.

  14. youre right.

    when iraq invaded kuwait the first time we should have just let them be.

    because we all know that the organization that is responsible for policing the world (the u.n.) had the situation covered :rolleyes:

  15. To be honest.....if you are gonna worry about the US going and helping another country in war, then you should worry about Isreal before Georgia.

    They just might attack Iran around election time. If that happens, you can expect us to be aiding them with resupplies in Iraq while they are fighting.
  16. I think it does, actually.

    Here you say:

    Implying that Georgia is fighting Russia for independence.

    I don't wholly blame your ignorance for this, as the news is airing a story not much different from yours, but you should know that Georgia won independence in 1991.

    2 years prior, in 1989 during Soviet Georgian rule, South Osettia asked to be an autonomous state from Georgia. This was denied, Georgian culture was forced on Ossetians, and regional parties were barred from politics. The South Ossetians held elections anyways, and elected their own government despite Georgian disregard.

    After the independence of Georgia, no longer holding Soviet ties, they bombed the hell out of South Ossetia. Over 1,000 civilians were killed, and 100,000 ethnic Ossetians fled.

    Russia came to South Ossetian aid and forced Georgia to sign a ceasefire. Georgia still abused the South Ossetians to this day... About 10,000 Russian military are kept as peace-keepers, along with Georgian military.

    So this goes on for 16 years, until NOW, when Georgia bombs the hell out of South Ossetia again, this time killing around 2,000 civilians, and breaking the ceasefire.

    So why is it that when Russia holds their promise to South Ossetia, and defends them from the aggressor nation, that they are, at least from my point of view, unjustly vilified by the Western world?

  17. ^^ iz dat sum histree?
  18. Hmm but does it warrant them controlling a third of the country? and possibly more by the end of the week?

    Even after the cease-fire was declared and Russia said they have suffered enough there is still fighting going on and reports of tanks going towards Georgia's second largest city. Reporters have seen Russian armored vehicles in Gori. Really no one knows Russia's intentions besides Russia.
  19. #20 aaronman, Aug 15, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2008

    Hmm. You ever heard the expression, "Don't believe everything you hear"?

    Georgia has lobbying power in America just like any other oil-adjacent country.

    Why should we sympathize with war criminals anyways?

    And this: little American girl who was there during the attacks even makes the effort to point out that the Russians are heros!

    Thanks to Variety magazine for this:

    I know I could be wrong here too, but if self-confessed neoconservative Bill Kristol is writing these disgusting Op-Eds in support of Georgia, something must be up:

    Our "humanitarian efforts" will eventually lead to further American intervention into the area. This is Orwell's "Newspeak" at work, people.

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