It is a very informative thread. Also a little surprised. The reason I am thinking is because a lot of this is just quoted and all over the internet but slightly different every recipe. Mine is very similar as well however I notice alfalfa meal is greatly overlooked in this forum. Like how alfalfa meal is pretty much the only amendment that contains natural plant growth hormone triacatol (spelling that wrong I'm sure.) But that's also the fun in it is tweaking things here and there and seeing the results. Insect frass and fish hydrolysate or a couple others highly over looked in my opinion.
I don't think they are overlooked, its just maybe a bit redundant if you follow the basic coot recipe and probably why these things are not mentioned as much as stuff like kelp or neem. I still see plenty of growers talk about alfalfa, frass etc. Personally I use alfalfa as a N source in my city compost bucket so I dont use it as much in the soil or as an amendment. I've even had some weird experience using alfalfa FPJ, lets just say PGR overload is not a good thing, lol.
Hmm I'm curious if the alfalfa growth hormone triacatal (sure that's spelt wrong) is a cause of stretch. I have noticed my stretches have been more intense. Guess I will calm down on the alfalfa. Probably replace alfalfa straw with barley straw.
In fact, I wager alfalfa is the cause, or more specifically, triacontinol. Especially if used as a mulch. The growth regulator is not always going to cause that there are certain windows of time in a plants life cycle that these regulators are effective. When you use alfalfa hay as mulch, you guarantee that you will be supplying triacontinol at any time the plant will accept it. During flowering stretch is a terrible time to give it to a plant in my personal experience.
IDK how much Tricontinol you would really get from decaying mulch. It don't think it would be a lot in any case and the release would be very slow (at the rate of decomposition). I'm not sure but I would also assume the alfalfa hay/straw would have less than what you would get from the leafy parts that we use as amendment. What I experienced using frequent applications of alfalfa FPJ was not exactly stretching but more of a very heavy foxtailing effect combined with enhanced mutated leafy growth.
I think you, and maybe many others would find this interesting. There is a decent amount of talk of triacontinol. Episode 79: Understanding Plant Growth Hormones with Dr. Jim Barrett And Fwiw, your results, and mine weren't that far apart. Lol
Actually after few hours of research yesterday that may not be the problem. It actually is more looking like my Red: Far Red ratios and Blue:Green ratios not being dialed in is causing shadow avoidance symptoms. Green spectrum through research the past years people are finding it does have a very important role. Yes it does reflect off the chlorophyll but in doing so helps distribute red and blue photons very successfully throughout the canopy even increasing penetration. Hlg 50 high cri actually looks like it would be an amazing addition to my grow to help resolve the SAS during stretch in flower. The hlg far red initiator has been working amazingly in accelerating the phytochrome process in flowering. I was even reading in study's it could benefit to have on just 10 min before lights on as well but also could increase SAS as well due to increased FR.
As you can see I use a lot of spectrums lol but I actually have a lot of fun experimenting with them.
I listened to that podcast recently since you posted it a few months ago, Nosmatt. I thought it was really interesting, especially when Dr. Barrett talked about how triacontanol breaks down fairly quickly and he wonders whether we are really getting any at all with the dried/pelletized alfalfa meal most of us can get commercially. Most folks here, anecdotally at least, don't agree with that part of the podcast, at least when I brought it up in the Autos thread!
I thought the part about temperature differences was pretty interesting. I'd love to see someone try the "morning dip" technique on taller plants during stretch.
Feed store pelletized alfalfa is head and shoulders above dried "meal" imho. I have made teas with both, used both in mixes etc... It takes a very small amount of triacontinol to actually see a response out of the plant.
Makes me wonder if the alfalfa meal I have (Down to Earth brand I think) is leftover pelletized feed store material as some of it is pelletized? I'll have to check the feed stores around here and see what they've got - I suspect you can only get it in bulk like 50lb bags? Edit: yep, 50lb bags for horse feed. And its cheaper than the 5lb box I could order on amazon of Down to Earth. Think I'll go grab a bag and give it a try! I can always throw some on my outdoor garden and add some to my compost since I'll have plenty
They should have small bags of that too. The 50lb bags of OMRI organic pellets are 18 bucks where I live, and that's California... So likely cheaper for the rest of the planet. I had always used Dr earth, comes in a 2lb bag, tiny pellets. Just like DTE. Feed store pellets are much larger. I only use 4-5 of them in a pint jar to make tea. They are great for compost piles this time of year when there is no green material to be found. My worm bin gets a very small handful every couple of weeks as well. Fwiw, I get rice hulls at the feed store as well. Super cheap.
I went to the feed store and picked up some alfalfa hay to mulch with. 3cuft compressed bale for $15. The 50lb pelletized are roughly the same price. Way cheaper than DTE
I wasnt aware that coco lacked sulfur compared to peat until seeing this thread. I mixed up a fresh batch of soil recently with coco coir, and mostly organic teufel compost (forest products, dairy manure, chicken manure, worm castings, bat guano, kelp meal and oyster shell (no municipal inputs)) with some oly fish compost and 25 pounds of worm castings. A good amount of perlite. With an ammendment blend of alfalfa meal, fish meal, crab meal, kelp meal, fish bone meal, and mined gypsum. With glacial rock dust, AG Lime also. I've got four 25 gallon pots with about a quarter of room left in them. The soil will have 1-2 months to cook and will try to get some neem meal and another kind of compost to top the pots off. Would it be a good idea to mix in some peat to get more sulfur im the soil? Or would this mix be fine without it?
It would depend on the ratio of Coir used in your mix. You also listed Gypsum which contains sulfur. Gypsum is calcium sulfate (CaSO4). Refined gypsum in the anhydrite form (no water) is 29.4 percent calcium (Ca) and 23.5 percent sulfur (S). I'd check your pH once mixed and cycled as you have crab meal and Oyster shell flour. This is usually added to correct the pH of a peat based mix. Peat as I'm sure you know has a pH between 3.0-4.5. I'm not familiar with your forest compost, you may have all the peat you need in that. One thing I would add is to be sure your mix has enough aeration. I use between 30-40 percent when using heavy compost components.
My mix ratio is about 25% Coco coir 4 - Cu Ft , 40% Humus (3 - Cu Ft organic Teufel compost, 1 - Cu Ft Oly fish compost and 2 - Cu Ft worm castings) with 35% Perlite 5 - Cu Ft. I wasn't aware that crab meal raises Ph, there is probably less than half a cup per Cu Ft of it in my mix, so hopefully not a huge effect. I just got more castings, perlite and amendments from the soil store today. I got neem meal, more kelp meal (the Teufel compost also has kelp) and green sand. I think I'm done adding amendments to the pots until I reach flowering, then I'll add malt barley and use ful-power. My seeds from the Atlantic bank arrived on the 17th. It arrived in good condition and came a day sooner than the estimate, I took a chance and didn't pay for package insurance too. I believe they arrived in less than a week from ordering. I got a fem Liberty Haze 5 pack with a couple free fem Big Bud seeds. My Liberty seeds germinated and broke soil around day 4. I've got them under a 105w CFL until node 3-4, then I'll transplant to 3 gallon pots and go under a 600w MH. Final transplant into 25 gallon pots and 1000w bulbs. I've moved to a different area since my last grow (and first successful grow) in Seattle and am living in a much drier climate in Eastern Washington. My previous setup in a un-insulated garage in a grow tent did not have any way to control the climate for my plants temp and humidity, I only had one inline fan for exhaust and it exhausted back into the stagnant garage with just passive negative pressure for the intake. For the majority of flowering my plants were in very high humidity often 70%-80% Rh and towards the end suffered bud rot on a couple of my largest colas. I decided to harvest about a week earlier than I would've and still had a lot of nice looking buds, roughly 570 grams of dried dense bud. This time my setup will be in a bedroom and the house has built in AC that maintains 73° during summer, I'll have an inline hooked up that will be exhausting warm/humid air out the window with a booster fan for an intake. Between my better tent setup and the drier climate, I'm thinking I'll have a fair chance against bud rot.
@Lawlerskates, it sounds as though you have a solid mix there. My only experience with coco coir was when I first switched over from hydro and it wasn't a pleasant experience. I believe @Jay_R_1787 uses coco in his mixes and may be able to offer some advise. I do remember you having some environmental issues with your tent grow in the garage. Seems like your going to ace this grow with a much better environment. It will be interesting to see how this grow goes for you.